Francis Hermans - Update - Solid evidence of him being in vicinity of torso murders.

[Astatine211]

Hi all,

Following my post yesterday I have spent the last day furthering my research into him when I made a surprising discovery. Most of the newspapers and his Wikipedia page list him with an incorrect name. His actual name is Francis Hermans not Francis Hermann. I know this from researching the Utah Archives and I have currently got a request for his case file pending. If I receive it and there is anything of interest in it I will update.

However this has led to a very exciting discovery. Hard evidence that a serial killer who dismembers his victims was operating in London at the time of the torso killings.

Francis Hermans who murdered between 2-8 people in America between 1891-1896 was living in Rotherhithe, London between the years of the Torso killings and JtR.

His job was a London City Missionary and was a naturalized British citizen.

Even if he doesn't have any relation to our cases it looks like I'm going to have to update his Wikipedia page.

This also shows us who his wife in England was he most likely murdered. We now know they got married in 1882 until her disappearance.

If you want to know more about his MO I have written more about it in my last post.

I'm hoping if I'm able to look at his case file I might find some correspondence between Salt Lake Police and MET Police since salt lake police were informed of the disappearance of his first wife.

If I find anything in his case file I will let you all know.

Will

Sources:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-65KZ

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DTC-QWF

[Abby Normal]

Hi all,

Following my post yesterday I have spent the last day furthering my research into him when I made a surprising discovery. Most of the newspapers and his Wikipedia page list him with an incorrect name. His actual name is Francis Hermans not Francis Hermann. I know this from researching the Utah Archives and I have currently got a request for his case file pending. If I receive it and there is anything of interest in it I will update.

However this has led to a very exciting discovery. Hard evidence that a serial killer who dismembers his victims was operating in London at the time of the torso killings.

Francis Hermans who murdered between 2-8 people in America between 1891-1896 was living in Rotherhithe, London between the years of the Torso killings and JtR.

His job was a London City Missionary and was a naturalized British citizen.

Even if he doesn't have any relation to our cases it looks like I'm going to have to update his Wikipedia page.

This also shows us who his wife in England was he most likely murdered. We now know they got married in 1882 until her disappearance.

If you want to know more about his MO I have written more about it in my last post.

I'm hoping if I'm able to look at his case file I might find some correspondence between Salt Lake Police and MET Police since salt lake police were informed of the disappearance of his first wife.

If I find anything in his case file I will let you all know.

Will

Sources:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-65KZ

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DTC-QWF

hi Ast
if all of this is true, and it looks like it is, i think we have a solid suspect for torsoman. do you know what month in 1891 he left england?
of course im asking to see if he left after the pinchin torso.

maybe some of our astute researches can jump on this and give you some help finding out more about him and his background in England.

very very interesting.

[Astatine211]

hi Ast
if all of this is true, and it looks like it is, i think we have a solid suspect for torsoman. do you know what month in 1891 he left england?
of course im asking to see if he left after the pinchin torso.

maybe some of our astute researches can jump on this and give you some help finding out more about him and his background in England.

very very interesting.

As far as I'm aware it's reported he first came to America in 1890, arriving at Minnesota but I am unsure of the month. Hopefully if I am able to receive his case file it should shed some more light on specifics.

[Abby Normal]

As far as I'm aware it's reported he first came to America in 1890, arriving at Minnesota but I am unsure of the month. Hopefully if I am able to receive his case file it should shed some more light on specifics.

thanks Ast
thats interesting because the last likely torso and ripper murders were in 1889 with pinchin and mckenzie. very interesting.

[Astatine211]

thanks Ast
thats interesting because the last likely torso and ripper murders were in 1889 with pinchin and mckenzie. very interesting.

I have been able to find an outward UK passenger list that could be him but it's paywalled on ancestry.com

[Astatine211]

thanks Ast
thats interesting because the last likely torso and ripper murders were in 1889 with pinchin and mckenzie. very interesting.

Thank you

[Astatine211]

thanks Ast
thats interesting because the last likely torso and ripper murders were in 1889 with pinchin and mckenzie. very interesting.

Okay I've accessed the passenger list and if it's the same one he travelled from Liverpool to New York on 8th April 1891 and I was also able to find a photo of him.

[Astatine211]

His age and profession in the immigration list match the one we're looking for as being 39 in 1891 and a missionary. I can say with confidence it is a match.

[Astatine211]

This news articles give a very good description of his crimes. Things I also noticed were the fact he wraps the dismembered body parts in newspaper like the Whitehall Mystery and bundles.

[Astatine211]

Although I'm of thought he is the Thames Torso Killer due to very similar MO, Timings and being close by to every torso murder hopefully his case file contains the mentioned letters so we can compare his handwriting to some of the Ripper letters.

[Astatine211]

Final note before I go to sleep, Francis had performed a successful abortion on one of his victims in SLC and had a great interest in anatomy and dissection, therefore I am certain he would have the correct skills to be the Thames Torso Killer, right down to the potential abortion on Elizabeth Jackson.

[jerryd]

Hello Astatine.

An article in the Hagerstown Mail, May 29,1896 shares much information on Francis Hermans.

Some highlights are-


-He was born of Swedish parentage and was a naturalized British citizen.

-He was pastor of a Scandanavian Methodist church.

-Description- "He is described as a man from 40 to 45 years of age. His hair is sandy as is the sweeping moustache he affects. Though inclined to be a trifle stout, he is very active, and his agility is heightened by his keen, restless grey eyes. As stated, he has been married three times."

-He traveled very widely. For several years he was employed on mail steamers running between England and India. He was also at one time in charge, as a minister, in a sailors home in Havre, France.

-The article states it was found that he was a medical student and in his rooms was found enough poison to kill all the inhabitants of Salt Lake City.

-He burned body parts and murder weapons in the furnace in the basement of the church he was pastor.



Thanks for digging him up. (no pun intended)

The article is very long. If you want more information, I can provide it from the article. I have found several news articles so I'll see if more can be found on him.

JD

[Kattrup]

Very nice Astatine
Hard to see if he has blotchy skin but a sandy moustache might be called carroty when seen in the dark.

[rjpalmer]

It's certainly an interesting case. A more bloodthirsty version of Severin Klosowski.

But if I'm looking at it correctly, it looks like he and his wife Emmeline had a son baptized in Horsham in 1891. So they apparently moved to the Horsham area sometime between 1882 and 1891.

You'll want to find out where Samuel was born in Dec 1887. I'm not immediately seeing it.

Samuel Hermans

Male

Birth: 3 Dec 1887

Baptism: 22 Mar 1891

Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Horsham, Surrey, England

Francis Hermans

Emmeline

1278932

1821

[rjpalmer]

Emmeline Smith marries him 15 February 1882. That says "City Missionary" for his profession, if you can't read it.