Why not McCarthy ?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

And I believe you have gotten to the nub here. ANY theory of MJK seems to require a good explanation of her final "condition."

That seems to leave us with:

1. A mentally ill person with a "love" motive.
2. A mentally ill person with a "political/religious" motive.
3. A killer who disfigures to thwart identification.

You`re forgetting the nutter who likes cutting up and disemboweling people for no apparent reason or motive.

[Sally]

Hello Sally. Oh, I think so.

But I would like to know her REAL name. Where did she come from? What was she about? Who was her friend in the Elephant and Castle district? Who was Joe Fleming?

Cheers.
LC

We'd all like to know that Lynn! I didn't know she had a friend in the Elephant and Castle District?

[lynn cates]

that's easy

Hello Sally. Oh, I think so.

But I would like to know her REAL name. Where did she come from? What was she about? Who was her friend in the Elephant and Castle district? Who was Joe Fleming?

Cheers.
LC

[Sally]

Hello Simon. Thanks.

Whoever died in Miller's Court, it was NOT MJK. We have no record of such a person.

Ah yes, Lynn - but was it the person calling herself MJK? That's a question.

[Rubyretro]

If the Millers Court victim ultimately proves to have been MJK, I'll eat my very jaunty Panama hat.

Bon appetit !

[lynn cates]

P's and Q's

Hello Simon. Thanks.

Whoever died in Miller's Court, it was NOT MJK. We have no record of such a person.

If, however, we find the complete details, I'll be happy to retract and stand a pint to the lucky/skilled researcher. (Yes, I think I already owe you 2 pints.)

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,

For what it's worth, my vote goes to your No. 3.

If the Millers Court victim ultimately proves to have been MJK, I'll eat my very jaunty Panama hat.

Regards,

Simon

[Rubyretro]

there was not a sign of composure, or of self preservation,

Well, I think that there are quite a lot of signs of composure...

a) If Kelly was killed by a client, then I would be really surprised that she neatly folded her clothes on the chair...imagine the scenario...

...And if she crashed out drunk, alone, I'm also surprised that she neatly folded them...

OK, there are are some people who are obsessively tidy -but it doesn't seem to fit what we know of Mary's personality.

I think that the chances are that it was the killer who folded them. A person who had been institutionalised, or was ocd, or obsessive about detail...and a man. (I hate to say this, but working in an hotel, I know that men in general, are far far tidier than women).

b) The killer did actually get away without being spotted -I'm sure that it took planning and a cold head.

c) The killer must have stoked that fire -it would have died out, and I can't believe that she would of burned clothing that coud be pawned -even if she was so uncaring as to burn clothes given to her for safekeeping by a friend...and I don't think that she was uncaring (her friend trusted her with the clothes-probably based on experience).

D) The killer stoked the fire for a reason...light and warmth being the obvious.
It was so hot in that tiny room that it melted the solder off the kettle. The killer must have undressed totally -for comfort- but also he would never have blood on his clothes when he left, which he counted on.

e) The killer took the time to arrange the body parts and pose the body...I don't think that he was in an over excited 'flap' -rather tidy and nasty and flamboyant..someone all round gifted and bright, but intrinsically cruel (yep, joins the thread on Somatic Narcissicm).

Otherwise, to go back to the original premise of this thread..I certainly don't think that McCarthy was the culprit...for starters you woudn't top someone who owed you money, and it would be obvious to send your strong man round (Bowyer), rather than the wife and kid...

[lynn cates]

overkill

Hello Colin.

"The silencing of a blackmailer would be (to me) the only conceivable motive, but the injuries to MJK are way over the top for what would be necessary to achieve that aim."

And I believe you have gotten to the nub here. ANY theory of MJK seems to require a good explanation of her final "condition."

That seems to leave us with:

1. A mentally ill person with a "love" motive.
2. A mentally ill person with a "political/religious" motive.
3. A killer who disfigures to thwart identification.

Cheers.
LC

[Robert]

McCarthy would have been bonkers to kill Kelly in this manner, in one of his own rooms, next door to where he lived.

[Bridewell]

Motive

Motive is lacking so far as we can tell. McCarthy had no need to kill Kelly for the sake of 29 shillings; not a large sum for him - so it wasn't money.

I don't think that McCarthy was the killer but the rent arrears fly in the face of what was normal at the time, with rent being payable daily in advance. The silencing of a blackmailer would be (to me) the only conceivable motive, but the injuries to MJK are way over the top for what would be necessary to achieve that aim.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Gene Lewis]

PS : it was not at the jury, but stated in the Globe, nov, 13:
"When I looked through the window the sight I saw was more ghastly even than I had prepared myself for.[…] Her liver and other organs were on the table."

[Gene Lewis]

Many reports, many suspects, many CONTRADICTORY testimonies of men going in and out MC... But none concerning a man supposed to live there, so present that a he was invisible (purloined letter): the landlord McCarthy...

[Sally]

Hello Sally.
All of this is tongue-in-cheek, it just goes to show, how anybody can be in the frame, by using speculation.
Whoever killed Mary Kelly, would have left Millers court in a deranged state physically, and mentally, and almost certainly drenched in blood, even if a top coat hid much of it.
It is certain that this individual would have been in a very excitable state, rather like the young man[ bloodstained] who rushed into a guy who was walking through Mitre square[ of all places] at 1010am some 35 minutes before the body of Kelly was discovered.
Although we have Cox's Blotchy, and Hutchinson's A man alleged to have been in the victims company on that night, we also have reports of a young man of smarter appearance.
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard - yes indeed, there are several reports of a 'well-dressed' man in the neighbourhood; although its difficult to know quite what to make of them - how much basis in truth they have. I tend to think that once the 'well-dressed' man ball got rolling, it carried its own momentum to a degreee.

But yes, you're quite right, its possible to make a suspect out of anybody if you adopt a suspicious frame of mind - what about Bowyer? He's on my list

[richardnunweek]

Hi Sally,
It must have been horrific to have viewed that scene, the work of a complete madman, there was not a sign of composure, or of self preservation, just intense anger, and a sordid and twisted mind.
Regards Richard.