Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

William Magrath

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
    I'm playing a long shot, but could this be our man?

    This is from the Thomas A. Larcom photographs collection in the New York Public Library Digital Gallery "of some of the more serious offenders confined under Penal and Reformatory Discipline in Mountjoy Cellular Prison, Dublin", between 1857 and 1866.
    That's interesting, but unfortunately I have to agree with Rob that it doesn't look like the man in the self-portrait.

    Comment


    • #32
      Hi Chris and Rob,

      Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't suggesting it was a photograph of the artist William Magrath. Although the address matches, we could well be wrong about him having been under suspicion. I was therefore suggesting that on the strength of the exactly matching name and Irish criminal connection this man might actually be the William McGrath recorded in Clutterbuck's thesis.

      Regards,

      Simon
      Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
        Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't suggesting it was a photograph of the artist William Magrath. Although the address matches, we could well be wrong about him having been under suspicion. I was therefore suggesting that on the strength of the exactly matching name and Irish criminal connection this man might actually be the William McGrath recorded in Clutterbuck's thesis.
        I see what you mean. As I said to Tom above, we can't be 100% certain there weren't two Irishmen with (essentially) the same name both living at 57 Bedford Gardens, but I think it's very unlikely, particularly as I found no mention of an artist named William McGrath when I looked.

        Comment


        • #34
          Hi Chris,
          I found this photograph of William Magrath, artist, in an 1894 magazine.
          The photograph itself isn't dated but must be before 1894 and certainly after the 1873 self portrait you found.
          Perhaps a closer likeness of how Magrath may have looked in 1888?

          Muncey's Magazine, Volume 11. page 344. 1894

          Click image for larger version

Name:	William Magrath Muncey's Magazine Vol 11 1894 2.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	48.9 KB
ID:	660646
          Last edited by Debra A; 08-27-2010, 04:54 PM.
          ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸, Debs ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,

          I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

          Comment


          • #35
            Phoenix Park murders

            A snippet on Magrath's feelings about the Phoenix Park murders.

            'The outlook' Vol 50 part 2 29 Dec 1894

            Click image for larger version

Name:	The outlook Vol 50 part 2 29 Dec 1894.JPG
Views:	1
Size:	16.2 KB
ID:	660647
            ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸, Debs ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,

            I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Debra A View Post
              I found this photograph of William Magrath, artist, in an 1894 magazine.
              The photograph itself isn't dated but must be before 1894 and certainly after the 1873 self portrait you found.
              Perhaps a closer likeness of how Magrath may have looked in 1888?

              Muncey's Magazine, Volume 11. page 344. 1894
              Thanks very much for posting this. I'm sure it does give us a better idea of what Magrath looked like at the time of the murders. As suggested by the other pictures, I think he looks a pretty old 50 (certainly by modern standards).

              The comment about his reaction to the Phoenix Park murders I had previously seen only in a publication from 1899. I'm not sure quite what to make of it. On the one hand, it suggests he was not a supporter of political violence. But on the other, the reaction seems rather irrational, and maybe smacks a little of "protesting too much."

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Chris View Post
                The comment about his reaction to the Phoenix Park murders I had previously seen only in a publication from 1899. I'm not sure quite what to make of it. On the one hand, it suggests he was not a supporter of political violence. But on the other, the reaction seems rather irrational, and maybe smacks a little of "protesting too much."
                Yes, it does seems a rather random comment, almost defensive, as if there was some suspicion or rumour about where his sympathies lay.
                ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸, Debs ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,

                I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                Comment


                • #38
                  questioning

                  Hello Debra. Nice find.

                  Was he questioned in regards to Phoenix Park or JTR, or does anyone know?

                  Cheers.
                  LC

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                    Hello Debra. Nice find.

                    Was he questioned in regards to Phoenix Park or JTR, or does anyone know?

                    Cheers.
                    LC
                    Thanks, Lynn,
                    The only reason I posted the Phoenix Park snippet was because it's one of the only things I have seen where Magrath makes any type of political comment.
                    All we have are the two SB ledger entries.
                    ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸, Debs ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,

                    I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Debra,

                      You post great stuff. I mean, just consistently relevant.

                      Thanks,

                      Mike
                      huh?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by The Good Michael View Post
                        Debra,

                        You post great stuff. I mean, just consistently relevant.

                        Thanks,

                        Mike
                        Thanks Mike, I really appreciate that.
                        ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸, Debs ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,

                        I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I've uploaded an expanded version of the article on William Magrath in the wiki section of Casebook:
                          http://wiki.casebook.org/index.php/William_Magrath

                          Many thanks to Debra Arif and R. J. Palmer for their help.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Many-many thanks to Chris, Debra Arif, and Roger Palmer for the impressively well-documented expanded article on William Magrath in the wiki section of Casebook.
                            I have a couple questions about things I've been curious about:
                            - From Magrath's statement in the Phoenix Park (posted here by Debra Arif) it appears to me that he most clearly wasn't a “radical“ Fenian at all, but possibly pro-Parnell. Has anyone yet conducted research about any political activity of Magrath's in New York?
                            - Please forgive me for being so ignorant (as a newbie), but is there any other possibility besides the newspapers and The Old Bailey to establish if Magrath was ever arrested out of political suspicion while in England? Are there any AVAILABLE police files (pertaining to questioned/arrested Irish residents in Victorian England) to go through? I assume that this has been already researched?
                            Very possibly I'm missing information here that other Ripperologists are aware of, but the only details I know about Magrath is his twice being mentioned in the Special Branch ledgers (as “connected to the Whitechapel murders“) and his probable residence at 57 Bedford Gardens.
                            Thank you.
                            Best regards,
                            Maria

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by mariab View Post
                              I have a couple questions about things I've been curious about:
                              - From Magrath's statement in the Phoenix Park (posted here by Debra Arif) it appears to me that he most clearly wasn't a “radical“ Fenian at all, but possibly pro-Parnell. Has anyone yet conducted research about any political activity of Magrath's in New York?
                              - Please forgive me for being so ignorant (as a newbie), but is there any other possibility besides the newspapers and The Old Bailey to establish if Magrath was ever arrested out of political suspicion while in England? Are there any AVAILABLE police files (pertaining to questioned/arrested Irish residents in Victorian England) to go through? I assume that this has been already researched?
                              Thanks for your comments.

                              I think between us we've looked at most of the obvious sources, so any suggestions about where else to try will be gratefully received. One source that might possibly shed light on Magrath's activities in America is the Foreign Office's "Fenian Brotherhood" series (FO 5; referred to by Christy Campbell). I've had a brief look at that, but it seemed pretty impenetrable, so it may not be easy to check.

                              But so far there is very little indication of any political activity - or even opinions - at all. As you say, the comments about the Phoenix Park murders suggest Magrath didn't support violent action. The impression I get is that his nationalism was of an altogether more sentimental nature. But then again, presumably there was something tangible that attracted the attention of the police to him.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                To Chris:
                                Thank you so much for all the information.
                                When you characterize the Foreign Office's "Fenian Brotherhood" series as “impenetrable“, do you mean in their content, or as hard to get access to?
                                I think I agree about Magrath's Irish nationalism most possibly having been of the artistic, sentimental kind. I wonder if there was a tangible action that attracted the attention of the police to him, or if it wasn't simply the fact that he was a relatively known artist travelling between England, Ireland, and America. But then again, “in connection to the Whitechapel investigation“? And there has been NO connection found pertaining to Tumblety so far, I assume... No Irish club in London, or something that they both might have attended...
                                Best regards,
                                Maria

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X