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  • H.H. Holmes



    Could America's first serial killer coincidently been Britain’s as well? Take a look at this article…

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...s_similar.html

  • #2
    Intersting.

    The big problem is actually placing Holmes in London at the time of the killings. I'm not impressed with the asserion that "Holmes was unaccounted for during the fall of 1888" I would like to see some hard evidence before I could lend any credence to it, Ripper theories are almost always propped up with similar assertions that simply don't hold water when put to the test.

    Also Holmes was a torcherer whereas Jack seemed to favour a quick dispatch of his victims, perhaps this was due to the more public location of the ripper murders.

    Still an intersting candidate worthy of further study. I must confess I'd never heard of him before

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    • #3
      Yeah, the case is pretty flimsy and I can't buy any sort of connection here but it's an intriguing enough thought that I used to pore through books and articles on the Holmes case trying to find where he was in 1888 and no one seems to know. Or even to have asked. Have never seen any suggestion before that Holmes might have been the Ripper, or that he was ever in London, but it kind of amazes me as he and Jack were contemporaries and almost equally notorious in their day as the world's most diabolical killers.

      There's a world of difference tho between a mad doctor torturing victims to death in secret chambers and a slasher who quickly kills his victims right out on the street, plus Dr. Holmes' crimes seem to have been motivated at least partially by profit.

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      • #4
        From the article :
        "Surely, Jack was not satisfied by this unfortunate turn of events. Within three hours, Catherine Eddows had fallen, giving birth to the now infamous Double Event. Her body had been disemboweled, her throat cut, and her nose completely severed. Furthermore, her heart and lungs were thrown aside, with her entrails twisted into the gaping wound around the neck.

        I don't recall such a colorful description being in the autopsy report or any other.
        Nor the heart and lungs removed.

        Sensationalizing like that has me suspicious about any other "facts".
        Dave McConniel

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        • #5
          I would encourage anyone interested in HH Holmes to find a good book and prepare to be amazed. While his "torture castle" is horrific, his later crimes against the Pitezel family just defy any kind of logic whatsoever. This man was truly depraved.

          But no, I don't think he was Jack.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Brenda View Post
            I would encourage anyone interested in HH Holmes to find a good book and prepare to be amazed
            Any particular books you can recomend Brenda?
            Best regards,
            Adam


            "They assumed Kelly was the last... they assumed wrong" - Me

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Nschaal View Post


              Could America's first serial killer coincidently been Britain’s as well? Take a look at this article…

              http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...s_similar.html
              Dr. Thomas Neill Cream was the guy who said I am Jack right before he died from getting hanged.

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              • #8
                Holmes would certainly match the descriptions but that is about it.
                Best regards,
                Adam


                "They assumed Kelly was the last... they assumed wrong" - Me

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Uncle Jack View Post
                  Any particular books you can recomend Brenda?
                  Hello,

                  Forgive me for butting in, but a book I heartily recommend is Harold Schechter's Depraved. Just the description of the intricacies involved in the murder he went on trial for is stunning.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LTowell View Post
                    a book I heartily recommend is Harold Schechter's Depraved. Just the description of the intricacies involved in the murder he went on trial for is stunning.
                    Thanks LTowell

                    Have just ordered it from Amazon on your recommendation.
                    allisvanityandvexationofspirit

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Totally different MOs and totally different signatures.

                      H. H. Holmes was a hugely succesful conman who insidiously instituted himself as a great and important member of society and was so organised that he made plans for a multistorey building to act as a killing factory during 1888. He constantly changed contractors over this time so they wouldn't realise what he was creating and so as a control freak had to be around Chicago to supervise the construction through this time.

                      Jack the Ripper had no lodgings to take his prospective victims to and didn't have the charm to converse with his victims for longer than the couple of minutes he used before he dispatched them. Also a disorganised or mixed disorganised/organised killer.
                      "Damn it, Doc! Why did you have to tear up that letter? If only I had more time... Wait a minute, I got all the time I want! I got a time machine!"

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                      • #12
                        hh holmes

                        Holmes would certanly be an ideal candidate for jtr is there any evedince of him visiting london at that time

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                        • #13
                          H.H. Holmes

                          Originally posted by nugnug View Post
                          Holmes would certanly be an ideal candidate for jtr is there any evedince of him visiting london at that time
                          Read The Devil in the White City Holmes who was born Herman Mudgett killed for money. He was glib and self assured con man who was killing women after getting them to give him access to their money and taking out hefty life insurance policies on them. he may also have had help from Peitzer (who he would later murder) for some of the killings. Even if you could place Holmes in London at the time, I doubt very much that he is a credible suspect. His motives were strictly financial.
                          Neil "Those who forget History are doomed to repeat it." - Santayana

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                          • #14
                            His Great Great Grandson

                            The material I have places Holmes in London July, August and September. He visited the medical school at the University of London, attempting to sell sleletons, which was one of his pursuits in the States. Is it proof? No, for it involves taking his word for granted, but its more than anyone else has.


                            Originally posted by Nschaal View Post


                            Could America's first serial killer coincidently been Britain’s as well? Take a look at this article…

                            http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...s_similar.html

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              We are quite certain he sailed on the Etruria that summer from New York to England. However, he used so many aliasas it may be impossible to absolutely prove.

                              Originally posted by nugnug View Post
                              Holmes would certanly be an ideal candidate for jtr is there any evedince of him visiting london at that time

                              Comment

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