Jack the........ Police Officer??

[Trevor Marriott]

Advice to 'Trekkie-like' Ripperologists, get rid of your suspect and get a life.

Stewart
I 100% concur with you on that point.

[Fisherman]

It's fair enough for anyone to make their case about anyone or anything - but to continue to ram it, repetitively, down people's throats ad infinitum gets a bit tedious.

Iīm afraid that is not an answer to the point I made. Nor is your advice here comparable to your earlier ditto, to "Trekkie-like Ripperologists to get rid of their suspect and get a life".

Since you kindly allow for me to make my case (if I donīt make it too loud or too often, that is ... discretion, please!), I can only conclude that I am not one of the "Trekkie-like Ripperologists"; the ones advised to get rid of their suspects and "get a life".

These boards are open to anybody who wishes to discuss the case. As far as I know, there is no restriction imposed on suspect believers to promote their respective cases. No prohibition exists, if Iīm correct, against mentioning your suspect on a thread, when you think your point has a bearing.

There are 62 threads on Aaron Kosminski as a suspect on the boards. And he of course surfaces on hundreds of other threads too, where posters have found it relevant to discuss or mention him.
I fail to see that this has ever caused anybody to claim that this profusion is equivalent to ramming him down peopleīs throats.

The solution to this riddle could be relatively simple - it is either more comme il faut to discuss Kosminski than Lechmere (with easily recognizable implications), or those who wanted to stay away from the ramming closed their mouths by simply choosing not to read the threads.

We have differing perspectives on Lechmere, you and I. I think he was the killer, whereas you donīt agree. A fresh perspective on your behalf would be to ask yourself what you had thought about other posters asking you to get rid of your suspect if you did have one. Would you consider it a good idea to accept that advice?

In Ripperology, Lechmere has not been discussed too much - he has been discussed too little. I watched Begg and Bennetts "Jack the Ripper - the definitive story" yesterday on Youtube, and noticed that there was a bright gas lamp shining away directly opposite the murder spot, a spot that was very dark according to Neilīs evidence. I also saw how the Lechmere/Paul encounter was depicted - as Lechmere noticed Nichols and stepped out into the street, Paul was standing right behind him. The carmen arrived at the spot in company in the scene!!!

This is where we end up when we donīt pay attention to details. And this is how the myth of Lechmere and Paul finding Nichols together, as first described by Swanson himself (!) is perpetuated.

And THIS is what we get "rammed down our throats" - until the knowledge is spread about how things really went down.

All the best,
Fisherman

PS. I actually liked "The Definitive Story" much otherwise - a very atmospheric effort, and well worth watching! DS.

[Stewart P Evans]

Ram

General advice: once anybody - no matter who - has somebody special in mind that he or she wishes to criticize, donīt be shy - name them, make your case and give them a fair chance to reply.
All the best,
Fisherman

It's fair enough for anyone to make their case about anyone or anything - but to continue to ram it, repetitively, down people's throats ad infinitum gets a bit tedious.

[Wickerman]

Yes, there have been a handful of distractions, but if you limited the thread to the central question it would have died long ago, which it did over three years ago.
Lets face it, what is there to say about the question, "was Jack a copper?"
With no reason, no evidence, no cause, what is left but to speculate?, or, drift off on a tangent, or two.

[Bridewell]

So, Jack the police officer then - whadda we all reckon?

Whoops, false alarm. We're straight back to Hutchinson.

Hutchinson isn't, as you quite rightly point out, relevant to this thread, but I took issue with something you said - on this thread - about him.

The point is taken though, and I've placed myself on the naughty step.

Back to the matter in hand. I don't see any reason to suppose that a police officer was responsible for any of the murders. I certainly don't think that, had that been the case, his colleagues would have concealed the fact.

[Wickerman]

What are you actually saying here, Jon?

I'm saying much the same as Christer has said, and what the police knew to be true. That streetwalkers are among the most unreliable of witnesses.
You might do well not to compare today's 'Politically Correct' society with the late Victorian 'Class-based' society.

I was suspicious of your failure to provide the sources for these quotes, and for good reason, because when I did some digging, I quickly discovered that they are two different versions of the same piece of inquest testimony

Might I suggest you equip yourself with the better shovel, or better still, go out and buy Stewart's, "Ultimate", at least there you will be able to read the original GLRO version of Mary Cox's testimony:

(GLRO) I remained a quarter of an hour in my room. Then went out she was still singing. I returned about one o'clock. She was singing then. I warmed my hands and went out again, she was still singing. I came in again at 3 o'clock. The light was out and there was no noise. I did not undress at all that night. I heard no noise, it was raining hard. I did not go to sleep at all. I heard nothing whatever after one o'clock. I heard men going in and out, several go in and out. I heard some go out at a quarter to six. I do not know what house he went out of. I heard no door shut, he did not pass my window.

Both comments in the same paragraph.

Simply because Prater and Lewis were both closer to Kelly's room. Nothing complicated here at all. Lewis's room was situated opposite Kelly's room, while Prater's was a floor above. Mary Cox's room, by contrast, was located as far away from Kelly's room as it was possible to be within the court.

The two broken windows faced the direction of Cox's room just three doors down at the end of the court.
Whatever she saw, or heard, one thing comes to mind, Cox appears to have got her times all wrong.

Well, I was trying to suggest a return to the topic, but people seem to prefer dredging up Hutchinson arguments again.

No, you were not.
Hutchinson's name will be used periodically in this case, but your sole intent is to jump right in there and make another issue about his credibility. This is what you enjoy, and it does not go unnoticed.

If you don't want to have the "Hutchinson-discredited" argument for the millionth time, don't pick the fight.

There is nothing to argue about, you have no argument.
What you choose to interpret is your business, but beyond having an opinion, you have nothing else.

[Fisherman]

You still talking Fishman?

I deal in the man on the No11 bus.

This talk of 'ordinary people' and serial killers, and their standards, is mere waffle Christer.

I understand perfectly, you need to cover what you stated to Caz whilst supporting your contaictory accusation of Cross's actions at the SOC.

Your difficult position is clear.

Monty

Yeah, yeah, "difficult position".

For a moment, I thought you were being serious.

Thatīs no good news for either of us.

The best,
Fisherman

[Monty]

You still talking Fishman?

I deal in the man on the No11 bus.

This talk of 'ordinary people' and serial killers, and their standards, is mere waffle Christer.

I understand perfectly, you need to cover what you stated to Caz whilst supporting your contaictory accusation of Cross's actions at the SOC.

Your difficult position is clear.

Monty

[Fisherman]

Ah,

The insults. The personal insults you resort to when out manoeuvred.

Usually happens when one is desperate to deflect.

You misrepresent, as ever, to avoid the fact that you state an innocent would, most often, come forward. Just as Cross did. Therefore, Cross's actions coincide more with that of an innocent than the guilty.

Out classed by a has been with the mentality of a four year old.

You talk too much.

Monty

Personal insults, Monty?

I follow the rules of the boards, and avoid personal insults. What I remarked upon was the quality of your reasoning, nothing else.

Moreover, I have already admitted that Lechmereīs actions are unusual statistically if he was the killer. Most people DO go to the police with the best of intentions.

But serial killers do not conform to "most people", do they?

And what you said was that I would somehow be "condemned by my own argument". That is totally untrue, unless we stipulate that ALL people do things the same way.

They donīt. And there goes your argument - boom!

So, Monty, nobody has insulted you personally, and you are still wrong. And you have done no outclassing, much as you would like to think so. You have instead tried to bang a square peg through a round hole by positing that the statistical "truth" must apply to all people, which it does not.

And I still wonder why you try to argue such a lost cause. Where is the quality of your argument? It does not even provide you with any opportunity to say that I have double standards (not that such a thing stopped you) - once you realize that the standards of ordinary people and serial killers differ, you should understand this.

The best,
Fisherman

[Monty]

Ah,

The insults. The personal insults you resort to when out manoeuvred.

Usually happens when one is desperate to deflect.

You misrepresent, as ever, to avoid the fact that you state an innocent would, most often, come forward. Just as Cross did. Therefore, Cross's actions coincide more with that of an innocent than the guilty.

Out classed by a has been with the mentality of a four year old.

You talk too much.

Monty

[Sally]

'Never give up, Never surrender!'

[Fisherman]

Seriously Fish,

Your questions, as ever, are loaded to support a suspect theory. You have been caught showing double standards.

There is no need to engage you in a debate as none is required. As I said, its quite simple.

I leave you to your verbal pontificating.

Now....beam me up please Stewart.

Monty

Seriously, Monty, itīs you that have been caught producing puerile thinking.

I will exemplify:

People will sometimes knock on your door, and they will normally have good intentions. They will not intend to pull a plastic bag over your head and hang you from a pipe in the ceiling, watching you suffocate and die.

So, Monty - does this mean that any suggestion that Dennis Rader could have deviated from the good guy pattern is "flawed", since it does not conform to the statistics?

Or do we need to accept that serial killers do not conform to the norm system of society just to keep you statistically happy?

You are normally looked upon as a front figure of Ripperology, Monty. And THIS is the kind of argument you pursue?? Itīs flabbergasting. And I canīt help asking myself why? Why do you throw something forward that a four-year old can tear to shreds?

You actually reason that the suggestion that Lechmere was the killer is flawed by our knowledge, and I quote, that ""people who know themselves to be innocent will very often come forward." Is that it?

Welcome to Kindergarten, everybody. Any four-year old taker?

The best,
Fisherman

PS. Your decision to stay away from further discussion of this particular issue does inspire some little hope in me. Itīs a very wise thing to do on your behalf, I must say! DS.

[Monty]

Seriously Fish,

Your questions, as ever, are loaded to support a suspect theory. You have been caught showing double standards.

There is no need to engage you in a debate as none is required. As I said, its quite simple.

I leave you to your verbal pontificating.

Now....beam me up please Stewart.

Monty

[Fisherman]

Advice to 'Trekkie-like' Ripperologists, get rid of your suspect and get a life.

General advice: once anybody - no matter who - has somebody special in mind that he or she wishes to criticize, donīt be shy - name them, make your case and give them a fair chance to reply.

All the best,
Fisherman

[Stewart P Evans]

Advice

Advice to 'Trekkie-like' Ripperologists, get rid of your suspect and get a life.