Who *are* Jack the Ripper(s) ?

[Celesta]

Hello DaveR,

Welcome to the Casebook. Lizzie is intriguing, in that some people question her guilt, but she doesn't pack the wallop that Jack does, despite the gruesomeness of her (?) crimes. At least not for this US American.

There are bucket loads of debates here on who was and wasn't a Ripper victim, so you should have plenty of room to maneuver. Enjoy your time here.

Best,

Celesta

[sdreid]

Yes, I think Lizzie would be ours for that era but she isn't half JtR. The other later big ones for us would be Black Dahlia and Zodiac although I can think of several I might put ahead of the latter.

[Sam Flynn]

HH Holmes lacks the mystery, there is no debate, there is no question.

I was thinking in terms of HHH being a contemporary Victorian serial killer who attracted a huge amount of sensational press coverage, Ally, rather than the "mystery" element. Even there, I'd respectfully suggest that the mystery around Jack the Ripper is a degree different than that surrounding Borden - at least when debating the latter, you've already "caught your rabbit", so to speak, whether you believe she did it or not.

Of course, you make a good point when you say that relatively few now know about HHH compared to Borden - quite why that should be the case, I really can't fathom. It's almost like the Ratcliff Highway murders of 1811 being better-known than the later Ripper series, to draw a British parallel, which would seem a bit "back-to-front" to me. Perhaps Borden's having a catchy rhyme written about her helped.

[Ally]

HH Holmes lacks the mystery, there is no debate, there is no question. With Lizzie there is, like Jack, still a mystery, also they have both had nursery rhymes/poems that made it into the general mindset and I guarantee if you asked the average person who HH Holmes was, they'd have no clue where as at least half the population has heard of Lizzie Borden.

[Sam Flynn]

Lizzie Borden is to Americans what Jack the Ripper is to the British?????

H H Holmes, perhaps?

[Ally]

Graham,

He did qualify the bit with Victorian-era murders and so in that sense, I'd have to agree. I can't think of another American murder in that time frame that is known to the vast majority of Americans as a subject of interest, speculation or that is prone to avid students dissecting and debating the elements of the case.

[Graham]

Lizzie Borden is to Americans what Jack the Ripper is to the British?????

What planet are you on, mate?

Whoo-hooo!

Graham

[Monty]

Oh Ally, how Ive missed you.

[Ally]

I was planning a very nice on-topic response to this post until I got to the signature. You actually titled your book Did Lizzie Borden Axe For It? I mean....my god. Leaving aside the fact it was a hatchet and not an axe, ....

... here, words fail me.

[DaveR]

Hello Ripperites!

I'm a scholar/researcher/historian of the Lizzie Borden case and a Ripper enthusiast/crime buff who's done a little work with police as a frelance detective, mostly in the capacity of information-gathering. Lizzie Borden is to the Americans what Jack the Ripper is to you Brits, the most fascinating Victorian true crime murder mystery. Anyway, I'm not sure how familair you are with the Borden double murders, but I don't wanna take this thread off-topic. I have a question which I'd love one of my fellow Ripper enthusiasts or one of the experts to take a crack at answering...

...We all know the 5 cannonical murders, but altogether there are 8 or 9 murders which are more or less often referred to as Ripper killings but sometimes dismissed because there was no mutilation, or it happened too long after the Mary Kelly murder, or etc. But if we take all 8 killings into account, it would appear to me based on the various circumstantial evidence, that there was not just ONE "Jack the Ripper" but several, perhaps 2 or 3 altogether, probably however working independently of each other. But still. The 4 or 5 cannonical murders were probably by the same hand, but the others were likely all each done by a different guy in each case. That's at least how I see it based on what we know. What do you good peope think? Thank you for your time, and I look forward to reading any responses.

David Rehak
author of "Did Lizzie Borden Axe For It?"