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So the Ripper, had a beard?

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  • So the Ripper, had a beard?

    George Robert Sims

    Sims was born in 1847 and educated at Bonn University. He took up journalism in 1874 and enjoyed wide popularity as a novelist, playwright and poet. He is perhaps best remembered as the author of the much parodied ballad, It Is Christmas Day In The Workhouse. He used his excellent police contacts to write about the Ripper murders for the publication The Referee, under the pseudonym Dragonet. Sims claimed that in 1888 a coffee stallholder in Whitechapel saw a portrait of Sims advertising his latest book, and believed he was the likeness of a suspicious man with bloodstained cuffs who had come to his stall shortly after the double murder, and announced to the stallholder that he would hear of two more murders the following day. Sims would make frequent references to this story, and appeared to believe the Ripper looked exactly like himself.

    A successful playwright, his most notable success was The Light of London, his autobiography My Life - Sixty Years Recollections Of Bohemian London, was published in 1917. Sims later came to believe the rumours that the Ripper was Montague John Druitt. In 1913 to counter these rumours Inspector John Littlechild wrote to Sims naming Dr Tumblety as a more likely suspect, this became known as the Littlechild letter. Sims died in 1922.




    http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media...orley/168.html
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Is that a horseshoe shaped pin in his necktie?

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    • #3
      @ Suspect Zero: Ha! Sims was certainly a toff, wasn't he?

      @ Station Cat: Thanks for the rundown on Sims and that great pic. I think the human memory is an unreliable thing, and that the stall-holder got things mixed up. No other witness description of the Ripper ever said a full beard, did it?
      Pat D.
      ---------------
      Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
      ---------------

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
        @ Suspect Zero: Ha! Sims was certainly a toff, wasn't he?

        @ Station Cat: Thanks for the rundown on Sims and that great pic. I think the human memory is an unreliable thing, and that the stall-holder got things mixed up. No other witness description of the Ripper ever said a full beard, did it?
        Don't think so, but they did mention a horseshoe pin. I think it might have been Hutchinson....

        Comment


        • #5
          Far from persuaded that anyone actually saw the Ripper.

          They may have seen someone with a victim, but is that proof it was the Ripper?
          G U T

          There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GUT View Post
            Far from persuaded that anyone actually saw the Ripper.

            They may have seen someone with a victim, but is that proof it was the Ripper?
            With all the witness sightings, the odds are at least one of them saw the Ripper.

            I've always been surprised at the lack of sightings after the murders. You'd think at those early hours someone would've seen a suspicious individual leaving the crime scene. There are a few nuggets in the newspapers, like the man on the doorstep cleaning his hands, but nothing substantial.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Harry D View Post
              With all the witness sightings, the odds are at least one of them saw the Ripper.

              I've always been surprised at the lack of sightings after the murders. You'd think at those early hours someone would've seen a suspicious individual leaving the crime scene. There are a few nuggets in the newspapers, like the man on the doorstep cleaning his hands, but nothing substantial.
              There is one sighting that is potentially of the killer, by its timing, and if accurate, and that has a victim with her probable killer, and that is Lawende's sighting of Kate. The issue with that is by that slim margin in time, its unlikely that he did in fact see Kate.

              Its unlikely Annie was seen with anyone when we have Cadosche putting a time to an assault in that yard, Israels Schwartz sighting would be equally as interesting as Kates, by the timing ...but Israels story is not submitted in any form to the Inquest, which of course it would be had it been believed. Then we have Sailor Man, who was supposedly seen with the victim within 8-9 minutes of her being found dead in another place, and after being fairly extensively mutilated....the timing doesn't really work there..., and then we have Blotchy and Mary...which may have been a legitimate sighting of a killer with the victim. We only know he eventually left, we don't know when.

              None of these men had beards. Thereby nullifying the premise that the killer looked anything like Sims.
              Michael Richards

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SuspectZero View Post
                Is that a horseshoe shaped pin in his necktie?
                That's exactly what it is. It seems to have eleven light-coloured stones (diamonds?).
                - Ginger

                Comment


                • #9
                  I could be incorrect, but I was of the impression that 'Dagonet' did not sport a full beard in 1888.

                  http://spartacus-educational.com/Jsims.htm
                  Best Wishes,
                  Hunter
                  ____________________________________________

                  When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hunter View Post
                    I could be incorrect, but I was of the impression that 'Dagonet' did not sport a full beard in 1888.

                    http://spartacus-educational.com/Jsims.htm
                    No. You are correct.. it was not. However, Ulysses s. Grant did.
                    As did Santa Claus.
                    Last edited by Abby Normal; 12-28-2017, 04:49 PM.
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The photograph of Sims, which supposedly resembled the Ripper, was on the cover of Sims's pamphlet "The Social Kaleidoscope" (1881).

                      And yes, he did have a full beard.

                      Here's a rather poor copy of the photograph.

                      http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/10624.html

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Indeed, it was the "Social Kaleidescope​." I stand corrected.
                        Best Wishes,
                        Hunter
                        ____________________________________________

                        When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                          None of these men had beards. Thereby nullifying the premise that the killer looked anything like Sims.
                          I'm not sure that I follow the logic here...if, as you say, it's unlikely that any of the potential sightings was actually the killer, how does the fact that they didn't have a beard show that the killer didn't?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A compromise

                            http://www.jtrforums.com/attachment....1&d=1288198803
                            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Station Cat View Post
                              George Robert Sims

                              Sims was born in 1847 and educated at Bonn University. He took up journalism in 1874 and enjoyed wide popularity as a novelist, playwright and poet. He is perhaps best remembered as the author of the much parodied ballad, It Is Christmas Day In The Workhouse. He used his excellent police contacts to write about the Ripper murders for the publication The Referee, under the pseudonym Dragonet. Sims claimed that in 1888 a coffee stallholder in Whitechapel saw a portrait of Sims advertising his latest book, and believed he was the likeness of a suspicious man with bloodstained cuffs who had come to his stall shortly after the double murder, and announced to the stallholder that he would hear of two more murders the following day. Sims would make frequent references to this story, and appeared to believe the Ripper looked exactly like himself.

                              A successful playwright, his most notable success was The Light of London, his autobiography My Life - Sixty Years Recollections Of Bohemian London, was published in 1917. Sims later came to believe the rumours that the Ripper was Montague John Druitt. In 1913 to counter these rumours Inspector John Littlechild wrote to Sims naming Dr Tumblety as a more likely suspect, this became known as the Littlechild letter. Sims died in 1922.




                              http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media...orley/168.html
                              I quote from the police description provided after the George Hutchinson interview: "Description: age about 34 or 35, height 5ft 6, complexion pale, dark eyes and eye lashes, slight moustache curled up each end and hair dark, very surley looking; dress, long dark coat, collar and cuffs trimmed astracan and a dark jacket under, light waistcoat, dark trousers, dark felt hat turned down in the middle, button boots and gaiters with white buttons, wore a very thick gold chain, white linen collar, black tie with horse shoe pin, respectable appearance, walked very sharp, Jewish appearance. Can be identified."

                              Seems like he borrowed part of the description from a photo of Sims......including the horseshoe pin. Who can see that kind of detail in the dark from the distance he claimed he viewed the man?
                              Clearly this was a lie.
                              Last edited by SuspectZero; 01-07-2018, 01:40 PM.

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