Only one suspect can be shown to have carried a knife.

[MrBarnett]

What fly to England from Australia to read an article?

Too much trouble, no doubt.

[MrBarnett]

When I was last in London in November last year, I went to the British library to get a full copy of the article. I ordered it but was told that it would take 48 hours before I could collect it. They said they would email me a notification when it would be available. This was on the 6th day of my 10 day stay for the Jack the Ripper conference. They never emailed me back. I did see the article about a decade earlier, but back then it only took an half-an-hour for the magazine to be brought up from storage. At the time, I did not connect Providence Row with Spitalsfield, thinking, mistakenly, that Providence Row was situated in the West End, its original location. Not knowing it had moved to Crispin Street. If anyone in London would like to make the effort and order the copy and provide a transcript I would be very happy if they shared it here.

I just now tried to see if there was an online digital copy, but had no luck. If anyone reading this would like to take a walk to the British library, perhaps some of the conjecture would be settled.

Apologies in advance for my pedantry, but PR was never in the West End.

Do you have any idea of what constitutes the West End and the East End?

[Richard Patterson]

What fly to England from Australia to read an article?

[MrBarnett]

When I was last in London in November last year, I went to the British library to get a full copy of the article. I ordered it but was told that it would take 48 hours before I could collect it. They said they would email me a notification when it would be available. This was on the 6th day of my 10 day stay for the Jack the Ripper conference. They never emailed me back. I did see the article about a decade earlier, but back then it only took an half-an-hour for the magazine to be brought up from storage. At the time, I did not connect Providence Row with Spitalsfield, thinking, mistakenly, that Providence Row was situated in the West End, its original location. Not knowing it had moved to Crispin Street. If anyone in London would like to make the effort and order the copy and provide a transcript I would be very happy if they shared it here.

I just now tried to see if there was an online digital copy, but had no luck. If anyone reading this would like to take a walk to the British library, perhaps some of the conjecture would be settled.

You're apparently the expert on the subject, why didn't you make the effort to obtain this crucial documemt before you wrote your book or approached your documentary producer?

[Richard Patterson]

Richard,

Presumably you have the full text of the 'Merry England' article upon which you base your claim that FT was living in the PR refuge in 1888.

It would be great if you could share it with us.

Gary

When I was last in London in November last year, I went to the British library to get a full copy of the article. I ordered it but was told that it would take 48 hours before I could collect it. They said they would email me a notification when it would be available. This was on the 6th day of my 10 day stay for the Jack the Ripper conference. They never emailed me back. I did see the article about a decade earlier, but back then it only took an half-an-hour for the magazine to be brought up from storage. At the time, I did not connect Providence Row with Spitalsfield, thinking, mistakenly, that Providence Row was situated in the West End, its original location. Not knowing it had moved to Crispin Street. If anyone in London would like to make the effort and order the copy and provide a transcript I would be very happy if they shared it here.

I just now tried to see if there was an online digital copy, but had no luck. If anyone reading this would like to take a walk to the British library, perhaps some of the conjecture would be settled.

[MrBarnett]

Strange Harp Strange Symphony. The Life of Francis Thompson, by John Walsh 1968. From page 50 of Chapter, ‘The Lone Chorasmian Shore’

“When neither food nor bed was available, he would along with other derelicts, often gravitate to one of the recently established Salvation Army shelters, or the Catholic Refuge in Providence Row. It was the latter place that Thompson supplied, evidently from his own experience, a harrowing picture: “The nightly crowd of haggard men…the anxious waiting while the ticket-holders are slowly admitted; the thrill – the almost shudder – through the crowd when the manager emerges to pick out men for the vacant beds left over after the ticket-holders’ admission. The sickening suspense and fear in all eyes as – choosing a man here and there – he passes along the huddled ranks, the cold clang with which the gates of mercy shut in those fortunate few, but out the rest; and then the hopeless drifting off of the dreary crowd…”

Here Walsh is quoting “Catholics in Darkest England” which appeared in the “Merry England” magazine in 1891. The entire portion, which describes Providence Row, was consequently removed by the Wilfrid Meynell, Thompson’s editor from any future publication of the article. From this excerpt of the article it is unclear that Thompson was one of those admitted or turned away, but that he would 'often gravitate' to it make me think he must have gained admittance once if not more than once.

The Salvation army shelter most probably the one situated in Limehouse. It was in 1888 that the Salvation first opened their two men's shelter. The first in Limehouse, in the East End, the second was opened near the year's end.

Richard,

Presumably you have the full text of the 'Merry England' article upon which you base your claim that FT was living in the PR refuge in 1888.

It would be great if you could share it with us.

Gary

[Richard Patterson]

I thought I’ve seen numerous times by posters on here that FT was staying right around the corner from Mary Kelly during the fall of 88, or am I getting my suspects mixed up?

Strange Harp Strange Symphony. The Life of Francis Thompson, by John Walsh 1968. From page 50 of Chapter, ‘The Lone Chorasmian Shore’

“When neither food nor bed was available, he would along with other derelicts, often gravitate to one of the recently established Salvation Army shelters, or the Catholic Refuge in Providence Row. It was the latter place that Thompson supplied, evidently from his own experience, a harrowing picture: “The nightly crowd of haggard men…the anxious waiting while the ticket-holders are slowly admitted; the thrill – the almost shudder – through the crowd when the manager emerges to pick out men for the vacant beds left over after the ticket-holders’ admission. The sickening suspense and fear in all eyes as – choosing a man here and there – he passes along the huddled ranks, the cold clang with which the gates of mercy shut in those fortunate few, but out the rest; and then the hopeless drifting off of the dreary crowd…”

Here Walsh is quoting “Catholics in Darkest England” which appeared in the “Merry England” magazine in 1891. The entire portion, which describes Providence Row, was consequently removed by the Wilfrid Meynell, Thompson’s editor from any future publication of the article. From this excerpt of the article it is unclear that Thompson was one of those admitted or turned away, but that he would 'often gravitate' to it make me think he must have gained admittance once if not more than once.

The Salvation army shelter most probably the one situated in Limehouse. It was in 1888 that the Salvation first opened their two men's shelter. The first in Limehouse, in the East End, the second was opened near the year's end.

[MrBarnett]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2gGLDun6yjM

[MrBarnett]

And the evidence that Thompson was carrying a knife in the East End in the autumn of 1888 is...?

Non existent?

[MrBarnett]

Francis Thompson. Dispensing with all the suspects who had knives that were either useless, on the other side of the world, or in their possession years later or years before.

And the evidence that Thompson was carrying a knife in the East End in the autumn of 1888 is...?

[MrBarnett]

I thought I’ve seen numerous times by posters on here that FT was staying right around the corner from Mary Kelly during the fall of 88, or am I getting my suspects mixed up?

There's little evidence that he was.

[Abby Normal]

I thought I’ve seen numerous times by posters on here that FT was staying right around the corner from Mary Kelly during the fall of 88, or am I getting my suspects mixed up?

[Richard Patterson]

Let's remind ourselves of the title of this thread - Only one suspect can be shown to have carried a knife.

Francis Thompson. Dispensing with all the suspects who had knives that were either useless, on the other side of the world, or in their possession years later or years before.

[MrBarnett]

Let's remind ourselves of the title of this thread - Only one suspect can be shown to have carried a knife.

[Richard Patterson]

I would hate to appear to be a pedant, but it's Spitalfields, not Spitalsfield.

Why on earth would it be sad if I didn't have an alternative suspect to FT?

Thanks for correcting my spelling. Being a pedant is hardly a bad thing.

Why would it be sad? Well, it would mean that for all your years of learning about this case you must have some formless void in your mind when you think of who to suspect for the murders. It would be, I suppose, like somebody who has learned everything that there is to know about the Pacific ocean, but who has never touched water. In short, you have learned nothing of any value, having come no closer to solving this interesting mystery. Or, to use another metaphor. It would be as if you were master-chef who doesn't have a favorite meal. I can hardly imagine that such a thing is possible. But perhaps you can do the impossible.