HH Hollmes

[jmenges]

For what this is worth, the court order allowing the exhumation of Holmes was quoted in an NBC article last April. My emphasis in bold...

A court order dated March 9 in Delaware County Pennsylvania gives Holmes’ descendants permission to exhume his body, with DNA analysis to be performed by the Anthropology Department of the University of Pennsylvania.

“Petitioners shall cause the remains to be re-interred in the same grave site in which they had originally been buried in Holy Cross Cemetery, regardless of whether or not those remains are determined to be those of Herman Webster Mudgett,” the order stated. “No commercial spectacle or carnival atmosphere shall be created either by this event or any other incident pertaining to the remains.”

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Who-Is-Really-Buried-In-The-Grave-Of-The-Devil-In-The-White-City-420778313.html

JM

[Abby Normal]

I don't know much about holms but wasn't he into torture of his victims? didn't he construct elaborate torture chamber and methods in his murder hotel?

[Pcdunn]

Interesting. I remember thinking that missing documents don't mean anything -- ask any Ripperologist.

[jmenges]

They discussed the layout of the Castle, how some corpses were dismembered to fit into the furnace (Torso Murders buffs, take note!), and found he was in Chicago buying up plots for his pet project as late as July 1888.
However, from then until April 1889, Holmes seems to vanish from the record in Chicago. Just the same period as the (canonical) Jack the Ripper murders! So where was he?

It appears that they only searched in the Register of Deeds office to find their gap in the timeline using his real estate transactions. If they would have then walked across the street to the county buildings and checked the voter rolls it would place him in Chicago in November, and there's proof he met with his attorney in October.

JM

[Pcdunn]

The first episode was interesting, but didn't tell me anything I didn't already know-- Mudgett was a strange kid, two of his cousins drowned mysteriously, he was bright and had a temper-- all the usual sociopath hallmarks. They discussed the layout of the Castle, how some corpses were dismembered to fit into the furnace (Torso Murders buffs, take note!), and found he was in Chicago buying up plots for his pet project as late as July 1888.
However, from then until April 1889, Holmes seems to vanish from the record in Chicago. Just the same period as the (canonical) Jack the Ripper murders! So where was he?
Next episode-- off to London!

The show does put the emphasis on research and evidence-gathering, and they have some big plans ahead, from excavation of the lawn near the old Post Office building (what now stands on the Castle's site) to exhuming Holmes' grave and doing a DNA test against the descendant to see if the killer was really buried there.

I'll wait and see how it develops.

[jmenges]

I'll be interviewing Adam Selzer, author of the book 'H.H. Holmes: How a Murderer Became a Devil' aka 'The True History of the White City Devil' along with Paul Begg and Jon Rees (both were filmed for the History Channel program and should be appearing in it) - this weekend for Rippercast.

We'll set the record straight.

JM

[Pcdunn]

For your information the documentary series about H. H. Holmes being JtR starts tonight (Tuesday, July 11) on History Channel, here in the USA. Ads for it indicate he doubts that his ancestor was really executed, and intends to dig up the grave.

I'll watch it, out of an interest in Holmes, but I'm not expecting that we'll be crying "case closed!" afterwards.

[Damaso Marte]

About as much evidence for Holmes being the Ripper as there is for Vincent Van Gogh being the Ripper.

[Pcdunn]

Also, please note it is a descendant of "H. H. Holmes" (who was born Herman Webster Mudgett) who is claiming all this stuff about Holmes is Jack the Ripper.

That tends to make it questionable as a real i.d., I would think.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I agree with all of the above. And as Mike said, surely he was in The States at the time?

Or is someone planning a Neil Cream-like piece of subterfuge including bribery and doppelgängers.

Regards
Herlock

[Mike J. G.]

As far as I know, he wasn't anywhere near London at the time. He seems to have spent a good portion of 1888 being sued.

[Mayerling]

It wasn't H.H.H. He was a "thrifty" killer, as he sold the dissected skeletons of his victims to medical schools (supposedly) - they were dissected in special medical surgery rooms in his Chicago Murder Castle, built in the 1890s to get victims (tourists) going to the "World's Columbian Exposition" in Chicago.

Check out Erik Larson's "The Devil in the White City".


Jeff

[Mark Adam]

Two completely different killers. HH Holmes killed for monetary profit.

...and additionally i guess he did not prefer the bloody mess like JtR did.

[Garza]

Two completely different killers. HH Holmes killed for monetary profit.

[Mark Adam]

agreed to GUT´s reply (both)