HH Hollmes

[Abby Normal]

I don't know much about holms but wasn't he into torture of his victims? didn't he construct elaborate torture chamber and methods in his murder hotel?

[jmenges]

For what this is worth, the court order allowing the exhumation of Holmes was quoted in an NBC article last April. My emphasis in bold...

A court order dated March 9 in Delaware County Pennsylvania gives Holmes’ descendants permission to exhume his body, with DNA analysis to be performed by the Anthropology Department of the University of Pennsylvania.

“Petitioners shall cause the remains to be re-interred in the same grave site in which they had originally been buried in Holy Cross Cemetery, regardless of whether or not those remains are determined to be those of Herman Webster Mudgett,” the order stated. “No commercial spectacle or carnival atmosphere shall be created either by this event or any other incident pertaining to the remains.”

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Who-Is-Really-Buried-In-The-Grave-Of-The-Devil-In-The-White-City-420778313.html

JM

[Pcdunn]

I don't know much about holms but wasn't he into torture of his victims? didn't he construct elaborate torture chamber and methods in his murder hotel?

Yes. He was also into marrying women for their money, making insurance cons, and selling the skeletons of some victims to medical school. He may have killed for the sick pleasure of it, but he also was motivated by obtaining wealth.
Jack's MO is different in many ways.

[Magpie]

I'm pretty new to this Ripper thing, but I'm pretty convinced this guy's nailed it with Homes....

[YankeeSergeant]

Holmes

The motivation was entirely different. Holmes (Mudgett) killed for profit. The first episode tried to make the case that Holmes started killing at an early age, but none of the cases brought forth were identified as murder. Could Holmes have killed several children while growing up in New Hampshire? Yes, but even with the lack of forensics as we know it today I doubt he would have had the skill set as an adolescent to get away with it. I will admit it is possible.
Holmes was all about monetary gain. The murder castle wasn't just about killing it was about making as much money as possible from his victims. I don't know what Jack the Ripper's motivation was. I'm reasonably certain, given his victims, that monetary gain was not it. Mr. Mudgett has been on specials before touting is theory of his ancestor being Holmes. I would guess he's making a fairly good dime from it (I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree). So far the series is strong on speculation and short on evidence.

[serya]

I'm always resistant to theories that tie together infamous murderers from different regions, decades, or countries. There is enough liberal connect-the-dots going on already in famous unsolved mysteries.

The style of the series looks to be like most the others they produce on History; garish flashbacks mixed in with researchers who often split up so they can jump back and forth in editing and keep things moving along, then review in replay coming back from commercial. I long for a more thoughtful straightforward presentation from yesteryear that is not sensory overload.

That said, of course I watched it.

Really look forward to the Rippercast on this subject though. Love that program.

[Pcdunn]

It looks as if they've merged your thread into this one, Serya, which is fine (the more the merrier!) I agree with you about the History Channel's format (I watched the Amelia Earhart special too-- which has since had a major piece of information debunked, supposedly), but I am watching out of curiousity.

Don't forget, episode 2 is on tonight, everyone!

[Pontius2000]

Holmes was a con-artist who killed for profit. Not only is there no shred of proof that he was JtR, there isn't even proof that he did most of the things that he's infamous for. I believe he "confessed" to killing 27 people. At least 5-6 of these were later found to be alive and well. There is no true evidence that the so-called "murder castle" was designed and constructed to aid him in killing people. The claim that he killed "hundreds" through the elaborate construction of this building is fairly ridiculous. It's more likely that Holmes did indeed kill 6-20 people, and all those killing were for monetary profit.

Keep in mind that just last week, the History Channel ran one of those "Amelia Earhart, case closed" shows based on a photograph. A real researcher examined the photo for LESS THAN AN HOUR, and determined conclusively that it was taken before Earhart's last flight. So an documentary you see on the History Channel should be taken with a huge grain of salt

[serya]

So where is that examination re Earhart that debunked the photo? I am always skeptical about photo evidence like that. Thanks.

[Pontius2000]

So where is that examination re Earhart that debunked the photo? I am always skeptical about photo evidence like that. Thanks.

Not sure. Basically the History Channel claimed Earhart survived her 1937 disappearance based on a photo which they claimed was taken afterwards. A researcher reviewed it and determined it was a photo from 1935 and was already previously known. The History Channel had to come out and apologize and with a statement saying they're "looking into" how badly they could have flubbed that. This is the same Channel that has Ancient Aliens.

[Pcdunn]

The researcher was a blogger in Japan, from what I heard, who said the photo appeared in a Japanese book published in 1935, so apparently NOT the supposedly secret photo taken by the US military and accidentally found in a declassified file. Other details in the photo concerning the boat and plane are also said to be incorrect. As the "Earnhart" figure only appears from the back, well, you get the drift...

History Channel just said they're investigating what has happened.

[Mayerling]

I sometimes wonder why they don't call it the "Pseudo-history and Hype" Channel. I prefer other channels for better documentaries (including PBS and Smithsonian).

[Pontius2000]

I watched first episode last night and already caught one blatant lie. It said HH Holmes acquired a pharmacy from a couple- the Holtons- who then "mysteriously disappeared". That's a bald faced, outright lie...Holmes BOUGHT the pharmacy from the Holtons and they never "disappeared"...both Holtons lived well into the 20th century and died of natural causes.

I don't mean to sound like Donald Trump, but this is the very meaning of "fake news"...when media outlets are more concerned with ratings than facts. Think about it from History Channel's perspective...HH Holmes is one of the most famous serial killers ever. JtR is THE most famous serial killer ever. So linking the two together is bound to be a cable tv ratings extravaganza, right? Nevermind that their "facts" are completely fiction

[jmenges]

The show is based on the fictional character H.H. Holmes that was invented by the press, not the real life Holmes. If you're looking for what you call "blatant lies", well, every time "H.H. Holmes" appears on camera in this show he's bound to be doing something that the real Holmes never did.

JM

[serya]

Thanks for the info on the Earhart photo, how embarrassing.