Sir William Gull

[rjpalmer]

He may very well been, we can't say he wasn't with any degree of certainty can we ?

Who is W.E.G.?

I'll take William Ewart Gladstone for $200, Alex, the most famous member of the Reform Club.

[John Wheat]

Fair enough , that your take i respect that.

But just on that comment by Sam if "no stroke " are we saying 72 year old men are not capable of murder ?

I have shown in the past on here a Great deal of documented evidence regarding the minimal effect the "minor" stroke had on Gull.

I rate him as a suspect based on that and other information known at the time. . They may have even been police interest at the time that could elevate him up the list . Cheers

Can you give any examples of serial killers that started at 72?

[FISHY1118]

I'm with Sam.

Fair enough , that your take i respect that.

But just on that comment by Sam if "no stroke " are we saying 72 year old men are not capable of murder ?

I have shown in the past on here a Great deal of documented evidence regarding the minimal effect the "minor" stroke had on Gull.

I rate him as a suspect based on that and other information known at the time. . They may have even been police interest at the time that could elevate him up the list . Cheers

[Lewis C]

I'm with Sam.

So am I.

[DJA]

[John Wheat]

Well, Paul, Sir William was almost 72 years old at the time of the murders, and would be dead within two years. Stroke or not, these facts alone make him an extremely unlikely candidate for the Ripper.

I'm with Sam.

[FISHY1118]

He may very well been, we can't say he wasn't with any degree of certainty can we ?

Certain parts of the article might well be interpreted as an interesting motive, Gull being a physician, perhaps he wanted to further medical science and this was his agenda. Who knows ?

[DJA]

Gull was not JtR,however reckon he was behind this article.

[FISHY1118]

I think she was, but for this issue, I don't think it matters. She died on the 7th, 4 days before this. However, the first 4 canonical victims died during the 2 month period that began August 11th. Unless your point was that Gull may have killed Tabram, but wasn't the Ripper.

I was merely pointing out, or trying to at least , that regardless of whether or not Tabram was a ripper victim ,the whereabouts of Gull in relation to the C5 murders in so much he couldn't have committed them is yet to be disproved .

So for me, working from a starting point of Nichols to Kelly thats all I'm really interested in . I'll let other decide for themselves who else they want to throw into the mix for their own benefit.

[Lewis C]

Unfortunately the Surrey Mirror like the rest of can't say for sure whether Martha Tabram was a ripper victim , ,I for one believe she was not .

I think she was, but for this issue, I don't think it matters. She died on the 7th, 4 days before this. However, the first 4 canonical victims died during the 2 month period that began August 11th. Unless your point was that Gull may have killed Tabram, but wasn't the Ripper.

[FISHY1118]

I noticed a comment on another thread where it was assumed that Sir William Gull was living in London (the West End) at the time of the 1888 murders.

Although I can't find any other reference to it, this doesn't appear to have been the case.

According to the Surrey Mirror, sometime in early August 1888, at around the time of the Tabram murder, Gull moved to "Underhills" a country estate outside of the village of Bletchingley. This is roughly 22 miles south of the East End (34 kilometers) and according to the notice Gull intended to live there for two months, which of course would keep him there until early October 1888.

As far as I can tell, the village didn't (and doesn't) have a railway station, so someone traveling to London would first have to take a carriage to Redhill or Godstone.

Unfortunately the Surrey Mirror like the rest of can't say for sure whether Martha Tabram was a ripper victim , ,I for one believe she was not .

[FISHY1118]

I'm not sure how "comfortable" it would have been. He would have to travel by carriage 2.5 miles to Godstone and then take a series of trains to Aldgate Underground (I haven't bothered to work out the specific route) and then walk or ride something like .6 mile to whatever bolt hole he supposedly kept near London Hospital.

I concede the Ripper could have been an out-of-towner, but I can't see the Ripper deliberately moving twenty miles out-of-town just prior to his campaign of murder.

It's not exactly an economical or efficient plan of attack.

Thanks Rj , Still, i should think time and location would not have been a major problem should any plan be undertaken .

[rjpalmer]

So all in all no real smoking gun here that would eliminate Gull as a stand alone Ripper suspect , only that he chose to get out of London for a short time whereby he could have comfortably traveled back on any given day for any purpose . IMO

I'm not sure how "comfortable" it would have been. He would have to travel by carriage 2.5 miles to Godstone and then take a series of trains to Aldgate Underground (I haven't bothered to work out the specific route) and then walk or ride something like .6 mile to whatever bolt hole he supposedly kept near London Hospital.

I concede the Ripper could have been an out-of-towner, but I can't see the Ripper deliberately moving twenty miles out-of-town just prior to his campaign of murder.

It's not exactly an economical or efficient plan of attack.

[FISHY1118]

I noticed a comment on another thread where it was assumed that Sir William Gull was living in London (the West End) at the time of the 1888 murders.

Although I can't find any other reference to it, this doesn't appear to have been the case.

According to the Surrey Mirror, sometime in early August 1888, at around the time of the Tabram murder, Gull moved to "Underhills" a country estate outside of the village of Bletchingley. This is roughly 22 miles south of the East End (34 kilometers) and according to the notice Gull intended to live there for two months, which of course would keep him there until early October 1888.

As far as I can tell, the village didn't (and doesn't) have a railway station, so someone traveling to London would first have to take a carriage to Redhill or Godstone.

Hi Rj , Interesting article ,However it doesnt really tell us much regarding Gulls movements at the time of the murders, only that he took up resident 22 miles from the East end . Im fairly sure the Police at the time didnt regard Tabram as a Ripper crime . If Gull did reside at ''Underhills'' from the date of the article, he would quite easliy have been able to travel to London for the first ripper murder, that which was Polly Nichols on the 31st Aug.

Being that the dates of Chapman , Eddowes and Stride murders were committed on 8th and 30th Sept , again leaving more than enough time to travel back and forth should that have been the case with Gull . Remembering its was only 22 miles, not a great distance by any means .

As for the Mary Kelly murder , well no real need to explain anything there . So all in all no real smoking gun here that would eliminate Gull as a stand alone Ripper suspect , only that he chose to get out of London for a short time whereby he could have comfortably traveled back on any given day for any purpose . IMO

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Ms. D.

I think that's been the assumption.

My thought it the same as Herlock's---possibly a little rest and recouperation in the country.

There's an account of Sir William tending an ailing friend in Norwood Green, Ealing on Sunday, November 11th (two days after the Kelly murder) so he wasn't entirely incapacitated before the serious health scare in December.

Of course, the Royal family would supply Gull with an alibi, wouldn't they!?




Duly noted.

Sorry Roger but that’s Netley’s brother Fred.