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  • Sir William Gull

    Hi everyone,
    I was a member of this forum many years ago and was surprised to find upon looking at the forum that not only was I not recognised, but that many posts had "gone". I suspect that my question has been answered but I don't know for sure:

    Sir William Gull has often been dismissed as a suspect because of his stroke before the first murder. But Stephen Knight showed that many others had lived productive lives after such a stroke. I know Knight's reputation isn't great in the JTR world, but is the "stroke" the main, or only reason why Gull is not considered as a suspect?

    Best wishes

    Paul
    --
    http://www.paullee.com/

  • #2
    Originally posted by DrPL View Post
    I know Knight's reputation isn't great in the JTR world, but is the "stroke" the main, or only reason why Gull is not considered as a suspect?
    Well, Paul, Sir William was almost 72 years old at the time of the murders, and would be dead within two years. Stroke or not, these facts alone make him an extremely unlikely candidate for the Ripper.
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

    Comment


    • #3
      Before asking why he shouldn't be considered the Ripper there ought to be some reason to think that he might have been, and there isn't anything other than some claims that don't make any sense from sources that are well known for making things up out of thin air if it suited them. That would seem to be the main reason he's dismissed as a suspect.

      Dan Norder
      Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
      Web site: www.RipperNotes.com - Email: dannorder@gmail.com

      Comment


      • #4
        I noticed a comment on another thread where it was assumed that Sir William Gull was living in London (the West End) at the time of the 1888 murders.

        Although I can't find any other reference to it, this doesn't appear to have been the case.

        According to the Surrey Mirror, sometime in early August 1888, at around the time of the Tabram murder, Gull moved to "Underhills" a country estate outside of the village of Bletchingley. This is roughly 22 miles south of the East End (34 kilometers) and according to the notice Gull intended to live there for two months, which of course would keep him there until early October 1888.

        As far as I can tell, the village didn't (and doesn't) have a railway station, so someone traveling to London would first have to take a carriage to Redhill or Godstone.


        Click image for larger version  Name:	Gull in 1888.jpg Views:	0 Size:	47.0 KB ID:	834903
        Last edited by rjpalmer; 05-26-2024, 01:07 PM.

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        • #5
          This is a photograph of "Underhills."

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          It is now known as the Wychcroft Retreat Centre and Google Maps shows that it about 1.8 miles outside of Bletchingley on a narrow one-lane country road.


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          Sir William had a long trek to Whitechapel


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          • #6
            Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post

            Sir William had a long trek to Whitechapel
            ..but he had Netley to whizz him back and forwards

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
              I noticed a comment on another thread where it was assumed that Sir William Gull was living in London (the West End) at the time of the 1888 murders.

              Although I can't find any other reference to it, this doesn't appear to have been the case.

              According to the Surrey Mirror, sometime in early August 1888, at around the time of the Tabram murder, Gull moved to "Underhills" a country estate outside of the village of Bletchingley. This is roughly 22 miles south of the East End (34 kilometers) and according to the notice Gull intended to live there for two months, which of course would keep him there until early October 1888.

              As far as I can tell, the village didn't (and doesn't) have a railway station, so someone traveling to London would first have to take a carriage to Redhill or Godstone.


              Click image for larger version Name:	Gull in 1888.jpg Views:	0 Size:	47.0 KB ID:	834903
              Good find Roger. I certainly wasn’t aware of this.
              Regards

              Sir Herlock Sholmes.

              “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post

                As far as I can tell, the village didn't (and doesn't) have a railway station, so someone traveling to London would first have to take a carriage to Redhill or Godstone.
                No railway station Roger but I just checked out the village on Google Earth and saw a bus passing through so Gull would have been ok.
                Regards

                Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Interesting find Roger!

                  I'd assumed that Gull was living in the West End at the time of the murders.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    And as he only intended to stay there for two months, and that the cutting says that he had ‘taken’ Underhills which was the residence Mr Barclay then it’s reasonable to suggest that he was only renting it. Why rent a house in Surrey for two months? It’s hardly a holiday location. I’d suggest the quiet of being outside of London for health reasons. Perhaps on Doctor’s orders to recover from another stroke seems a plausible possible explanation?
                    Regards

                    Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                    “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post
                      I'd assumed that Gull was living in the West End at the time of the murders.
                      Hi Ms. D.

                      I think that's been the assumption.

                      My thought it the same as Herlock's---possibly a little rest and recouperation in the country.

                      There's an account of Sir William tending an ailing friend in Norwood Green, Ealing on Sunday, November 11th (two days after the Kelly murder) so he wasn't entirely incapacitated before the serious health scare in December.

                      Of course, the Royal family would supply Gull with an alibi, wouldn't they!?


                      Originally posted by Geddy2112 View Post

                      ..but he had Netley to whizz him back and forwards
                      Duly noted.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post

                        Hi Ms. D.

                        I think that's been the assumption.

                        My thought it the same as Herlock's---possibly a little rest and recouperation in the country.

                        There's an account of Sir William tending an ailing friend in Norwood Green, Ealing on Sunday, November 11th (two days after the Kelly murder) so he wasn't entirely incapacitated before the serious health scare in December.

                        Of course, the Royal family would supply Gull with an alibi, wouldn't they!?




                        Duly noted.

                        Click image for larger version

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                        Sorry Roger but that’s Netley’s brother Fred.
                        Regards

                        Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                        “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
                          I noticed a comment on another thread where it was assumed that Sir William Gull was living in London (the West End) at the time of the 1888 murders.

                          Although I can't find any other reference to it, this doesn't appear to have been the case.

                          According to the Surrey Mirror, sometime in early August 1888, at around the time of the Tabram murder, Gull moved to "Underhills" a country estate outside of the village of Bletchingley. This is roughly 22 miles south of the East End (34 kilometers) and according to the notice Gull intended to live there for two months, which of course would keep him there until early October 1888.

                          As far as I can tell, the village didn't (and doesn't) have a railway station, so someone traveling to London would first have to take a carriage to Redhill or Godstone.


                          Click image for larger version Name:	Gull in 1888.jpg Views:	0 Size:	47.0 KB ID:	834903
                          Hi Rj , Interesting article ,However it doesnt really tell us much regarding Gulls movements at the time of the murders, only that he took up resident 22 miles from the East end . Im fairly sure the Police at the time didnt regard Tabram as a Ripper crime . If Gull did reside at ''Underhills'' from the date of the article, he would quite easliy have been able to travel to London for the first ripper murder, that which was Polly Nichols on the 31st Aug.

                          Being that the dates of Chapman , Eddowes and Stride murders were committed on 8th and 30th Sept , again leaving more than enough time to travel back and forth should that have been the case with Gull . Remembering its was only 22 miles, not a great distance by any means .

                          As for the Mary Kelly murder , well no real need to explain anything there . So all in all no real smoking gun here that would eliminate Gull as a stand alone Ripper suspect , only that he chose to get out of London for a short time whereby he could have comfortably traveled back on any given day for any purpose . IMO


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
                            So all in all no real smoking gun here that would eliminate Gull as a stand alone Ripper suspect , only that he chose to get out of London for a short time whereby he could have comfortably traveled back on any given day for any purpose . IMO
                            I'm not sure how "comfortable" it would have been. He would have to travel by carriage 2.5 miles to Godstone and then take a series of trains to Aldgate Underground (I haven't bothered to work out the specific route) and then walk or ride something like .6 mile to whatever bolt hole he supposedly kept near London Hospital.

                            I concede the Ripper could have been an out-of-towner, but I can't see the Ripper deliberately moving twenty miles out-of-town just prior to his campaign of murder.

                            It's not exactly an economical or efficient plan of attack.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post

                              I'm not sure how "comfortable" it would have been. He would have to travel by carriage 2.5 miles to Godstone and then take a series of trains to Aldgate Underground (I haven't bothered to work out the specific route) and then walk or ride something like .6 mile to whatever bolt hole he supposedly kept near London Hospital.

                              I concede the Ripper could have been an out-of-towner, but I can't see the Ripper deliberately moving twenty miles out-of-town just prior to his campaign of murder.

                              It's not exactly an economical or efficient plan of attack.

                              Thanks Rj , Still, i should think time and location would not have been a major problem should any plan be undertaken .

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