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  • #31
    Originally posted by Cogidubnus View Post
    First Tier
    A.N.Other, Jacob Levy, Aaron Kosminski,

    Second Tier
    Druitt, Tumblety, Kelly

    Third Tier
    McCarthy (no idea why - just generally suspicious of him)

    Fourth Tier
    All the rest...all no chance

    Cheers

    Dave
    Hi cog
    I'd go with bowyer instead of McCarthy.
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
      Hi Dave

      I'm not convinced that anyone could say there is no chance Bury couldn't be the Ripper. A proven wife murderer with a near identical M.O. to Jack. Strangulation followed by post mortem mutilation.

      Cheers John
      Well I definitely agree with this
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by MysterySinger View Post
        Well what did Packer (or was it the Police) have against Mr Lusk?
        No comprende
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • #34
          I think that Isenschmidt is a real possibility for the first 2 Canonicals.

          That of course means I feel differently about the remaining three, based on the ability to carry out the acts. I believe Stride was perhaps killed by hired security in the passageway, or a club member, and that alcohol and not madness was the catalyst. A second of loss of control due to inebriation. I think Kate may have tried to blackmail the person she claimed she was going to name to the police and it backfired..her wounds were intended to mimic the 2 unsolved murders known to her killer at the time. I think if her killer knew of the first murder that night Kates wounds would have been primarily to disfigure and mutilate. Thugs...not madmen. Mary, I believe, was killed by someone in her personal life that she in some way ruined emotionally. Or at least the killer believed that she did. He was mad, for sure, though not going out and killing strangers crazy.
          Michael Richards

          Comment


          • #35
            I have to go with Kelly because of what we don't know. Kosminski next because of what we do know.

            Mike
            huh?

            Comment


            • #36
              William H. Bury.

              As I've said before, he is objectively the best named suspect we have. He's the only one we can say with absolute certainty that committed a "Ripper-esque" murder and can be placed in the East End between 1887-1888. If Mary Kelly was the last murder, this would also favour Bury, who upped sticks to Dundee in January 1889 under false pretenses, and there was graffiti found at his new home which linked him to the Ripper.

              Most objections to Bury as a suspect are purely subjective (i.e. his behavour didn't subscribe to people's expectations of the killer, or there are later 'non-canonicals' that people would like included).

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                He's the only one we can say with absolute certainty that committed a "Ripper-esque" murder.
                Only slightly ripper-esque, however. The similarities to the "canonical four" mutilation murders are in truth not great, and the discrepancies too easily overlooked.

                I'd agree that Bury offers more interesting possibilities than most, but that doesn't make him a strong suspect in my view.
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                  I think that Isenschmidt is a real possibility for the first 2 Canonicals.

                  That of course means I feel differently about the remaining three, based on the ability to carry out the acts. I believe Stride was perhaps killed by hired security in the passageway, or a club member, and that alcohol and not madness was the catalyst. A second of loss of control due to inebriation. I think Kate may have tried to blackmail the person she claimed she was going to name to the police and it backfired..her wounds were intended to mimic the 2 unsolved murders known to her killer at the time. I think if her killer knew of the first murder that night Kates wounds would have been primarily to disfigure and mutilate. Thugs...not madmen. Mary, I believe, was killed by someone in her personal life that she in some way ruined emotionally. Or at least the killer believed that she did. He was mad, for sure, though not going out and killing strangers crazy.
                  Hi
                  As I was reading it makes perfect sense but then I realized you've got four killers for the c5!
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                    William H. Bury.

                    As I've said before, he is objectively the best named suspect we have. He's the only one we can say with absolute certainty that committed a "Ripper-esque" murder and can be placed in the East End between 1887-1888. If Mary Kelly was the last murder, this would also favour Bury, who upped sticks to Dundee in January 1889 under false pretenses, and there was graffiti found at his new home which linked him to the Ripper.

                    Most objections to Bury as a suspect are purely subjective (i.e. his behavour didn't subscribe to people's expectations of the killer, or there are later 'non-canonicals' that people would like included).
                    Agree. Good post.
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                      Only slightly ripper-esque, however. The similarities to the "canonical four" mutilation murders are in truth not great, and the discrepancies too easily overlooked.

                      I'd agree that Bury offers more interesting possibilities than most, but that doesn't make him a strong suspect in my view.
                      Hi Sam
                      If you look at the differences between Ellen and the rest of the c5 I think one could argue that there are more major similarities then minor differences.
                      I mean Nichols doesn't have organs removed and stride just cut throat. And I think any differences could be chalked up to the fact that she's his wife, he killed her in their home and deteriorating mentally etc.

                      I think if they hadn't moved and he had killed her in London, I think there's a good chance he might have hung as the ripper.
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                        Only slightly ripper-esque, however. The similarities to the "canonical four" mutilation murders are in truth not great, and the discrepancies too easily overlooked.
                        Ellen Bury's mutilations were the same in nature to Nichols', with several oblique incisions and one major wound to the abdominal area which exposed the intestines. The only discrepancy is that Ellen Bury didn't have her throat sliced, but 1. the suicide defense wouldn't stick if Bury slit her throat, 2. serial killers change their MO, and 3. he arguably didn't need to.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                          Ellen Bury's mutilations were the same in nature to Nichols', with several oblique incisions and one major wound to the abdominal area which exposed the intestines. The only discrepancy is that Ellen Bury didn't have her throat sliced, but 1. the suicide defense wouldn't stick if Bury slit her throat, 2. serial killers change their MO, and 3. he arguably didn't need to.
                          I could also see if it started as a drunken row and or she was perhaps accusing him of being the ripper it could influence it.
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                            I could also see if it started as a drunken row and or she was perhaps accusing him of being the ripper it could influence it.
                            What's most telling is that Bury inflicted the mutilations shortly after his wife's murder. Even if the murder wasn't premeditated, his instinct was to start cutting up the abdomen.

                            The only "Ripper-esque" murder that occurred in Whitechapel after Bury left the East End was Alice McKenzie, whose injuries were more superficial than Ellen's. Had Ellen Bury been found on the streets of Whitechapel instead of a basement flat in Dundee, I have little doubt that many would include her in the canon.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                              Hi
                              As I was reading it makes perfect sense but then I realized you've got four killers for the c5!
                              So what makes sense is only valid if it meets the Canonical Group criteria, 1 killer of Five women?

                              I think if people would assess the murders as individual murders then this study would be far more productive, because the facts are that not even 2 of the Canonicals murders have ever been connected with each other by any evidence. Merely assuming killer with mental illness for any violent crime may be expedient, but its hardly investigative work. There are possible motivations for a few of the Canonicals murders that we already know of....and likely others that we have no idea about.
                              Michael Richards

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                                I think if people would assess the murders as individual murders then this study would be far more productive, because the facts are that not even 2 of the Canonicals murders have ever been connected with each other by any evidence.
                                Except by the police officials who worked on the case, the medical examiners, and everything we know about serial killer profiling.

                                I've read your 'motivations' for some of the murders and they're laughable.

                                Comment

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