Ripper Facts

[Pierre]

I would love to help, and the first thing I would say, which might deflate your research would be for you to consider that maybe the killer did not remove the organs from the victims at the crime scene.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Hi Trevor,

What might be the evidence for this?

Regards, Pierre

[Craig H]

The only Benjamin in the medical records seems to Benjamin Gabriel Neale. He was born 1867 in Chippenham Wiltshire to Robert and Ann Neale. He qualified in 1891.

Hi Debs,
I found that Benjamin. Gabriel Neale (physician) in 1901. With wife Eveline and kids in Gloucestershire .... So not our mine.
It makes you think he studied medicine but not practised it.
Any idea on where to find medical schools in London in1881. Benjamin and wife were living in Regents Park.
Steve had suggested closest teaching hospitals would gave been middlesex, then ucl, westminister and st Georges. Not sure where to look for any records on. Enrolled or graduated students.
Craig

[Debra A]

Hi Debs
Is this the one you mean ?

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/manchester_guardian/mg881119.html

Craig

Yes, that's one version of it, Craig. There are different versions with different conclusions to the story but the same main basis of the man being a doctor with links to London and Birmingham.

Aston is part of Birmingham.

[Debra A]

The only Benjamin in the medical records seems to Benjamin Gabriel Neale. He was born 1867 in Chippenham Wiltshire to Robert and Ann Neale. He qualified in 1891.

[Craig H]

Hi Debs
Is this the one you mean ?

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/manchester_guardian/mg881119.html

Craig

[Debra A]

Hi Debs
Good find. I wonder why they married in Aston , Warwickshire. ? I'll see if any relatives there
Craig

Hi Craig,
I wondered if one or both of them might have been working there?

Intriguing that there could be a link to Birmingham if you recall the suspected doctor who was arrested at Euston, coming from Birmingham by train? The doctor had been in practice with someone else in London but supposedly travelled to Birmingham regularly.

[Craig H]

Hi Abby
Thanks - where do I search for criminal record ??
All the best

Craig

[Abby Normal]

Some more information on Benjamin which paints an interesting picture of him.

Benjamin

Benjamin Thomas (bn June qtr, 1849 – BMD). In 1871 Census (surname mis-spelt as “Noall”) he was an Assistant and chemist in London on High Holborn St, Finsbury.

In 1881 Census he is a medical student, married, living with wife Sarah Ann Esther (nee Burrell) at 15 Osnaburgh Street, Regents Park. I can’t find his marriage details on BMD. It would be good to identify where he was studying.

In 1891 Census, he is a surgeon, but a lodger at District Charles William Mowl Victoria Home (39-41 Commercial Street, corner of Wentworth Street.). As Joshua Rogan posted above, this was a low quality lodging house mainly used by labourers. Certainly not expected for a surgeon.

I’m trying to find any records of him practising as a surgeon. Debs posted above she can’t find him on the Medical Register.

Interestingly, Benjamin is listed on the 1891 Census as “Single”. In the Census, his wife Sarah is living with her mother Catherine Burrell in Suffolk (near where she was born). Sarah had no children with Benjamin.

Benjamin died in 1899 (BMD) in Staffordshire, which is where his brother Raglan lived. I’ll get the death certificate to identify cause.

His Family

His father was Thomas Neal – a painter / decorator / builder – who lived with wife Charlotte in Sheraton Magna. Wiltshire which appears to be a small country town.

They had 6 children.

Alice Elizabeth (bn abt 1849) moved to London and married Lias Berry – a joiner – in October 1872 in St Marylebone. In 1891 Census they were living in Somers Town, St Pancras. No children.

Catherine Tyler (bn 1852) moved to London and married Alfred John King in 1871. In 1881 Census, they are living in St Giles, Berkshire with 3 kids; in 1891 Census in Worcestire with 8 kids.

Duncan (bn 1853) and Moses (bn 1858) stayed closer to home. In 1881 Census, Duncan was a house painter (father’s job) living at home with parents. In 1891 Census, both Duncan and Moses were Veterinary Surgeons living together at home town, Sherston Magna. Again, 1901 and 1911 Census has them both as vet surgeons, living together – both in their 50’s in 1911.

Raglan (bn 1855) was a publican in 1901 and 1911 Census in Staffordshire with wife Minnie Elizabeth and 3 kids.

Benjamin’s wife was Sarah Ann Esther Burrell, born June 1856 in Bramfield Suffolk, parents Samuel (a cattle dealer) and Catherine.

Why he could be a suspect

As mentioned above, based upon what we know (or think we know) about the Ripper, he was :

• Aged 28 – 35 years old in 1888 (witness statements PC Smith, Lawende)
• English
• Likely to have surgical skills or anatomy knowledge (coroners)
• Likely to live in Whitechapel (geographical profiling – also the lines from Eddowes site to Goulston Street, and Stride site to Church Lane suggest he was heading in that direction; likely he knew victims as they all lived in close proximity)
• Likely to be single or living on own (FBI profile)

Benjamin meets this criteria (although a bit older – 39 years old).

I’m thinking he was a failed medical student as no evidence of him actually practising. However, he kept seeing himself as a surgeon (which is how he described himself in 1891 Census).

I suspect his marriage was not good. They were living apart in 1891 and no children.

His lodging house (if that’s where he was in 1888) was close to where the victims lived. Maybe he knew them socially through bars or knew them by sight.

His motive may have been to show the world he was a surgeon (it must have been irritating that his brothers Duncan and Moses were veterinary surgeons). The Ripper showed surgical skills and removed organs.

His father died in March 1886 – which may have been a trigger.

I know this is all speculation … but hopefully worthy of more research.

Nice!!!

Criminal record?

[DJA]

The July 6,1988 analysis by John E Douglas, FBI (NCAVC),concluded that there were "Postmortem mutilation" and "Subject removed body organs (ie.,kidney,vagina,nose) on some of the victims, indicating some anatomical knowledge".

[Craig H]

Hi Trevor
Yes - I'm aware of your theory that the organs were removed by someone else, not the killer. It's interesting and may explain things.
However, the focus of this thread is to create some assumptions - based upon what has been covered earlier in this thread.
It may be best if I stay focused on those assumptions
All the best
Craig

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor
Thanks for the FBI link. Will read tonight.
You may be right and my assumptions are wrong. However, that's all any of us can do due to the tyranny of time. We make assumptions and test them. I don't think mine are crazy or unfounded.
The next step would be to find any evidence of where he studied medicine or worked. Appreciate any help
All the best
Craig

I would love to help, and the first thing I would say, which might deflate your research would be for you to consider that maybe the killer did not remove the organs from the victims at the crime scene.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry
Good to hear from you. Thanks for that
Does that mean that house was just used by people for short stays - several nights at a time ? Or could people stay longer ? I don't know much about lodging houses
All the best
Craig

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but I think after 6 days of regular stay they were eligible for the pass. So, no, not necessarily short stays.

[Craig H]

I believe the Victoria Home required a person to be in by 1 a.m or they were turned away. Unless they had a special pass. They had a few other strict requirements IIRC. Would that put a damper on someone not having a regular bolthole to return to after a kill?

Hi Jerry
Good to hear from you. Thanks for that
Does that mean that house was just used by people for short stays - several nights at a time ? Or could people stay longer ? I don't know much about lodging houses
All the best
Craig

[Craig H]

Can you not see that a wrong profile will create a false trail.

Seeing as you are so keen on research, you might want to read what your respected FBI say in this report about serial killers including profiling.

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Hi Trevor
Thanks for the FBI link. Will read tonight.
You may be right and my assumptions are wrong. However, that's all any of us can do due to the tyranny of time. We make assumptions and test them. I don't think mine are crazy or unfounded.
The next step would be to find any evidence of where he studied medicine or worked. Appreciate any help
All the best
Craig

[Craig H]

Hi Debs
Good find. I wonder why they married in Aston , Warwickshire. ? I'll see if any relatives there
Craig