Druitt and Monro

[Wickerman]

. . .

A man who deliberately charms, controls, dominates, incapacitates, mutilates, evicerates and then obliterates an innocent woman by primarily targeting her reproductive and sexual organs, is more likely NOT to be a Homosexual.

Statistically speaking.

But of course, that archaic and pathetic mindset that outlawed homosexuality at the time, was probably used as a means to ridicule gay men.

The term 'sexually insane' in the 19th century primarily meant 'oversexed', not 'homosexual'. This interpretation was taken from a 19th century publication and posted on one of the archived Druitt threads from years back.

The boys school where Druitt taught did have female staff, some were young girls who were cleaners and kitchen staff.
So, him getting 'in serious trouble' at the school could easily have meant him accosting the females.

Sorry if you already knew this, I have not seen this mentioned, thats all.

[Wickerman]

. . .

It's called masking. People put on a front. They act normal, even happy, yet inside they're struggling. And sometimes they get tired of the struggle. Druitt was a robust athlete, a successful barrister. And one fine day he filled his pockets with stones and jumped into the river.

Virginia Woolf was known to be a swimmer, yet she filled her pockets with stones and walked into a river to drown herself.
I thought it was an odd choice for a swimmer to make, but apparently not.

[Lewis C]

Have you known any suicides?

Richard Cory by Edwin Arlington Robinson

Whenever Richard Cory went down town,
We people on the pavement looked at him:
He was a gentleman from sole to crown,
Clean favored, and imperially slim.

And he was always quietly arrayed,
And he was always human when he talked;
But still he fluttered pulses when he said,
"Good-morning," and he glittered when he walked.

And he was rich—yes, richer than a king—
And admirably schooled in every grace:
In fine, we thought that he was everything
To make us wish that we were in his place.

So on we worked, and waited for the light,
And went without the meat, and cursed the bread;
And Richard Cory, one calm summer night,
Went home and put a bullet through his head.

It's called masking. People put on a front. They act normal, even happy, yet inside they're struggling. And sometimes they get tired of the struggle. Druitt was a robust athlete, a successful barrister. And one fine day he filled his pockets with stones and jumped into the river.

Hi Fiver,

I understand "his mind gave way" to mean something far more extreme than having inner struggle. To me it suggests a complete breakdown. However, the fact that you and I seem to understand the phrase in rather different ways may suggest that we can't conclude much from this choice of words.

[Wickerman]

. . .

Why commit suicide on a Saturday, and write "since Friday" instead of "since yesterday" or "since a week last Friday" or "since Nov 30th"?

I don't think he did write that, the wording is paraphrase by the journalist.

The Coroner read the letter, which was to this effect:-"Since Friday I felt I was going to be like mother, and the best thing was for me to die."

That is the journalist talking, which means it could have read "since yesterday", the journalist was just being precise for his readers because these reports don't always appear in print the next day.

[Wickerman]

But the transcription of the Acton Chiswick and Turnham Green Gazette from this site does not say the William Druitt claimed he and his mother were the only relatives. . .

Quote:
"His mother became insane in July last. He had no other relative".

This is the journalist again, maybe his choice of wording is at fault. Did he mean he had no father, who died in 1885, or did he mean Montague was not married, no wife and children?

[rjpalmer]

or did he mean Montague was not married, no wife and children?

"he had no other relative" is an awfully clumsy way to say Druitt was unmarried and childless, isn't it? Why not just say so?

It's reported as if it is the concluding line of William Druitt's deposition which implies that he's leaving the impression that MJD had no other relatives that could shed further light on the matter before the coroner.

That's how I read it.

[Doctored Whatsit]

Did you consider brother William could have wrote the suicide note?




Anne Druitt's medical record mentioned 'depression', I wouldn't think that was normally something you would choose suicide over, but then I've never had depression.

Assuming Druitt did commit suicide, the reference to not wanting 'to be like mother', I suspect meant he didn't want to be incarcerated in an asylum for the rest of his life.

Hi Jon,

I did originally wonder whether William wrote the note to try to ensure a proper christian burial, because of the awkward rules about suicide being unchristian and burial in consecrated ground being potentially restricted.

"Not wanting to be like mother" is capable of different interpretations, and it is impossible to be sure what it meant. It is easier to interpret "the best thing was for me to die!."

[Doctored Whatsit]

I don't think he did write that, the wording is paraphrase by the journalist.

The Coroner read the letter, which was to this effect:-"Since Friday I felt I was going to be like mother, and the best thing was for me to die."

That is the journalist talking, which means it could have read "since yesterday", the journalist was just being precise for his readers because these reports don't always appear in print the next day.

Hi Jon, I understand, but I think that is unlikely that on the 2nd of January 1989, the journalist would look up the actual day of the week that "yesterday" would have been in relation to 1st December when making his notes, even if he totally accepted that that was the day of death. He'd just write "since yesterday".

If Druitt did write "since yesterday", then his suicide would have been a decision when he left home, yet he bought a return ticket and took cheques and a fair amount of money with him, suggesting it wasn't deliberate.

I just think the whole thing is unfortunately a bit "untidy". It just doesn't feel right!

[Doctored Whatsit]

How can we be sure that the “Since Friday, I felt like I was going to be like mother, and the best thing was for me to die” note hadn’t been written a month or two earlier (or longer) but not sent, for whatever reason? Maybe this might have been explained in the part of the note which wasn’t read out at the inquest?

We cannot be sure, as you say Herlock. All we know is that he allegedly left a note for his brother worded roughly as you quoted. I just feel that when someone writes "since Friday", whatever is the relevant context, it is relevant for the next few days only. If it is intended to be relevant for longer, then it should logically have been "since Friday the 23rd November", or whatever. It seems unlikely to me that a man could write, "the best thing was for me to die", and then do nothing and forget about it.

As I have said, I don't have strong feelings about it, I just recognise that there are aspects of the alleged suicide which don't quite feel right, and I only brought it up because the intro to this thread suggested Motague was murdered. It wasn't meant to cause a great deal of debate! There is an "untidyness" about the suicide which feels wrong for a barrister.

[Fiver]

"he had no other relative" is an awfully clumsy way to say Druitt was unmarried and childless, isn't it?

"he had no other relative" is an awfully clumsy way to say anything.

[etenguy]

Great Post.

The sceptic in me feels that perhaps the family were so embarrassed by Druitt's alleged homosexual tendencies and oddball antics, that they told MM he must have been the Ripper as though it was some kind of warped explanation as to Druitt's behaviour.

In reality, it would seem less likely (and not more) that the Ripper was Homosexual.

A man who deliberately charms, controls, dominates, incapacitates, mutilates, evicerates and then obliterates an innocent woman by primarily targeting her reproductive and sexual organs, is more likely NOT to be a Homosexual.

Statistically speaking.

But of course, that archaic and pathetic mindset that outlawed homosexuality at the time, was probably used as a means to ridicule gay men.

Shameful of course, yet it possibly did play a part in making it easier to then throw mud onto the likes of Druitt.

Thanks Rookie D

I do not know what members of the Druitt family told the police, but I struggle with the motivation you ascribe for claiming he was the ripper. If Montague Druitt was homosexual, I think it odd to suggest he was Jack the Ripper (worse than being homosexual), in order to detract from his homosexuality.

If the family told the police they had reason to believe, or evidence of, Montague Druitt being Jack the Ripper, then I would think they sincerely thought that to be the case, whether it was in fact true or not.

People suggest the timing of his suicide (if that is what it was) soon after the last ripper murder provides evidence to support Druitt's guilt in the ripper crimes. However, there was another event which is a more likely explanation for his suicide, which was his sacking from the school in quick order, suggesting an incident of some magnitude occurred. It is not unreasonable from what we know, to speculate that this incident involved some kind of sexual behaviour (homosexual assault on a pupil perhaps) which led to sufficient shame that the school wanted it hushed up and that he took his life.

[c.d.]

But we don't know for certain whether a member or members of the Druitt family ever spoke directly to the police, correct? Mac seems to imply that they were the original source but that doesn't eliminate a family friend or acquaintance being the one who actually passed the information directly to the police. And if that were the case, it is possible that the original suspicion of the family was taken out of context.

c.d.

[GBinOz]

We cannot be sure, as you say Herlock. All we know is that he allegedly left a note for his brother worded roughly as you quoted. I just feel that when someone writes "since Friday", whatever is the relevant context, it is relevant for the next few days only. If it is intended to be relevant for longer, then it should logically have been "since Friday the 23rd November", or whatever. It seems unlikely to me that a man could write, "the best thing was for me to die", and then do nothing and forget about it.

As I have said, I don't have strong feelings about it, I just recognise that there are aspects of the alleged suicide which don't quite feel right, and I only brought it up because the intro to this thread suggested Motague was murdered. It wasn't meant to cause a great deal of debate! There is an "untidyness" about the suicide which feels wrong for a barrister.

Hi Doc,

While Herlock is correct (IMO) in saying that we don't know when the note was written, and therefore we don't know to which Friday he was referring, I think it is safe to say that whatever Friday is the subject of his note, there must have been an major incident on that day for him to conclude that the best thing for him was to die. So what possible incidents, that we know of, can be considered.

It has always been assumed that he was sacked on the Friday before his departure for London due to misconduct. Is there even the slightest evidence that this may have been the case? Could he have been sacked some time later for the offense of failing to give notice that he was not going to turn up for the start of term (due to the fact he was dead)? The other Friday, that we know of, is the murder of Kelly. It is possible that the note was written within a week of this event. The other alternatives are that Monty was writing about something for which there is no known record, such as an event involving his mother, or Monty didn't write the note.

Cheers, George

[mklhawley]

To C.D.

According to the Hainsworths' book, anything is possible, but it is very improbable that of all people, Melville Macnaghten - hands-on; obsessed with the Whitechapel murders; a rogue operator in the field; outranking everybody at the Yard in terms of 'breeding' - would have left it at an account by a family acquaintance.

Mac would have gone straight to the Druitt family to whom, after all, his close friend, Colonel Vivian Majendie was related by a marriage - and would have done so discreetly and reassuringly. He implies as much in his memoir chapter "Laying the Ghost of Jack the Ripper" (1914); the de-facto third version of his 1894 report.

[Doctored Whatsit]

To C.D.

According to the Hainsworths' book, anything is possible, but it is very improbable that of all people, Melville Macnaghten - hands-on; obsessed with the Whitechapel murders; a rogue operator in the field; outranking everybody at the Yard in terms of 'breeding' - would have left it at an account by a family acquaintance.

Mac would have gone straight to the Druitt family to whom, after all, his close friend, Colonel Vivian Majendie was related by a marriage - and would have done so discreetly and reassuringly. He implies as much in his memoir chapter "Laying the Ghost of Jack the Ripper" (1914); the de-facto third version of his 1894 report.

The problem with Macnaghten's account is that he wrote so many things about Druitt that were incorrect that I can't help feeling that no investigation of him could have been made. Druitt was said to be a doctor, (wrong) 41 years af age (wrong), disappeared at the time of the Miller's Court murder (wrong). He wrote that he believed that his suspect, "resided with his own people; that he absented himself from home at certain times .." (not true of Druitt). A very nominal investigation would have resolved these errors.

He wrote, "From private information I have little doubt but that his own family suspected this man of being the Whitechapel murderer." What exactly does this mean? "Little doubt" means that he doesn't know, but believes. Therefore a member of Druitt's family didn't supply the information, or he would have known. His informant was presumably therefore at best, someone close to the family, a family friend or a member of the household staff perhaps.