druitt getting the sack

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Caz et al.

I have to think that Monty's cricketing career also had something to do with his mental state. Having been born August 15, 1857, he would have turned 31 on August 15, 1888. Consider this. He's trying to balance a career as a barrister and a schoolmaster as well as continue with his cricketing activities when he is the wrong side of 30. It would have been much easier for him to be a cricketer and participant in other sports while he was younger and attending Winchester College and New College, Oxford, when he would have been either playing at home or traveling with the team. Much harder as an aging amateur cricketer to be working in two careers and having to travel to wherever the team was playing. Just something else to think about... the stress upon him of his career choices in teaching, the law, and cricket, all combined with the fear that he was "going like mother."

Best regards

Chris

[Robert]

Yes Caz, I see no reason to doubt William. "The only relative" was probably in answer to the question, was he the only family member attending the inquest. And indeed there was no reason why the other Druitts should have attended, unless they had something important to say. John and Dave can correct me on this, but I don't think it was the custom to dragoon every member of a suicide's family into court. As head of the family, William's presence would have been enough.

As for William forging the suicide note : if he did, then why mention his mother and her mental illness? He would not have put that bit in if he was dishonest, for there were reputations and careers to sustain and advantageous marriages to contract. But if he was honest, and the note was genuine, then there is no problem.

[caz]

There was such a stigma about suicide in those days (at least among the middle to upper classes) that brother William comes across to me as a reliable witness for admitting that Monty had written such a note and producing it at inquest to help establish the cause of death. It would have been a double-edged sword for the family to have their deceased relative regarded as a loony at best or a criminal at worst. Might William not have stated he was the sole relative in order to spare the other Druitts the indignity? That would be a very Victorian thing to do, along with Valentine's steadfast silence concerning the nature of the 'serious trouble at the school' that prompted him to sack Monty.

I can't entertain the theory that the serious trouble and subsequent suicide were incidental or isolated events, considering the two alleged suicide notes, addressed to Monty's boss and his brother, were found among his effects when William arrived at the school and had them searched.

But the cheques found on his body, together with the estate he left, could argue against him being fired for financial irregularities, or fired in his absence from the school. You don't fire someone for simply being absent, if they could have met with an accident or fallen seriously ill. That's just not cricket. You try to find out why they are missing in the first instance, and that would have involved Valentine contacting William or other relatives. But it never happened. It took Monty's unexpected and unexplained absence from Chambers to alert William and send him to Blackheath looking for clues. That leads me to conclude that his absence from the school was neither unexpected by Valentine nor unexplained.

Back to that 'serious trouble' then. And since Valentine had a brother serving on the cricket club committee it would have been par for the course (excuse the mixed sporting metaphors) for any serious trouble at the school to quickly result in Monty's dismissal from the club too, this time in his absence - obviously. As Andy mentioned, it's entirely normal to be absent from a cricket club in December in England.

As Jonathan H has often pointed out, we cannot be sure whether the suicide notes were opened and read by their respective recipients before or after Monty was officially dropped by the cricket club. But they must have had what they considered to be good grounds for doing so, especially if they were aware by then that the wretched man might have gone and done himself in.

Ah, those Victorian toffs - so frustratingly reticent on the subject of suicide, mental illness or 'improper' behaviour of any kind.

Love,

Caz
X

[Robert]

Worth remembering that the suicide note was reported as being "to this effect." We don't know how long the suicide note was. Apparently suicides could sometimes write quite long and rambling suicide notes. The reporter merely summarised the note in the briefest possible way.

[Wickerman]

Ah, my mistake it was by Howells & Skinner, The Ripper Legacy, 1987.

Yes, the 'who-dun-it' conspiracy aside, I thought it worth pointing out that any modern attempts at psychological analysis into the words "becoming like mother" may be a waste if the suicide note was not genuine.

The phrase could easily have been the first excuse William could think of on the spur of the moment.

[The Good Michael]

Its years since I read Skinner's book, but wasn't one suggestion that the suicide note might have been fabricated by William?
Suicide being an illegal act in those days unless, sufficient cause could be shown indicating mental instability?

I remember that argument. Maybe William dumped him in the Thames as well. I can't remember if there's a coroner's report that still exists mentioning the letter.

Mike

Mike

[Wickerman]

Its years since I read Skinner's book, but wasn't one suggestion that the suicide note might have been fabricated by William?
Suicide being an illegal act in those days unless, sufficient cause could be shown indicating mental instability?

[curious4]

Women's problems

Hi Robert,

When talking about "genetics" in the context of 1888/1889 to 1900 or so one has to be careful. Gregor Mendel, who worked out the laws regarding genetics as we understand them, had been an abbot in a monestary in the Czech section of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. He died in 1884, and his theories were just starting to be discussed (and mostly discounted). The general view in the age of the Ripper about traits still relied on passing them by chance, not by anything resembling DNA or some simpler "mathematical" code of several possibilities given previous dominent and recessive genes. Despite Darwin's work, the average person still had a faint belief regarding La Marck's theory of acquiring characteristics. The reason for this was that Darwin never never could figure the key to passing traits, just the rule that the species that survive of plant and animal were the ones whose traits were most likely to assist survival.

When Druitt is concerned about "becoming like mother" he recognized something in his behavior that resembled his mother's slow descent into madness. We don't know what that was, but it must have frightened him intensely. He did not consider some of the Druitt famiy traits (a propensity to diabitis, and frequent suicides by family members) as related by common physical points - he just noted the similarity of his behavioral quirks to his mother's.

Jeff

Hello Jeff,

All the mental problems seem to have been on the female side of the Druitt family. And always, as far as I know, in females of "a certain age" or older. It was not unknown years ago, before Prozac and HTR, for women to become very depressed or mentally unstable during their menopausal years. Unless Druitt was very unusual, I can't see him "becoming like mother".

Best wishes,

C4

[Robert]

Hi Jeff

Maybe 'genetics' was the wrong word - they obviously didn't have the physical knowledge we have now. I meant that families - especially the aristocracy - did have a belief in 'blood' or whatever you want to call it. Pedigree was important to them.

[Mayerling]

Hi Pink

The thing is, people had a strong belief in genetics in those days, and it's possible that Monty started to wonder if his mother's illness would strike him too. If he was particularly concerned about this, it's possible that he started to watch himself, to see if any signs appeared. And it's in the nature of such things that one starts to see things which aren't there.

Of course there's no evidence of this. I suggest it merely as a possibility.

Hi Robert,

When talking about "genetics" in the context of 1888/1889 to 1900 or so one has to be careful. Gregor Mendel, who worked out the laws regarding genetics as we understand them, had been an abbot in a monestary in the Czech section of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. He died in 1884, and his theories were just starting to be discussed (and mostly discounted). The general view in the age of the Ripper about traits still relied on passing them by chance, not by anything resembling DNA or some simpler "mathematical" code of several possibilities given previous dominent and recessive genes. Despite Darwin's work, the average person still had a faint belief regarding La Marck's theory of acquiring characteristics. The reason for this was that Darwin never never could figure the key to passing traits, just the rule that the species that survive of plant and animal were the ones whose traits were most likely to assist survival.

When Druitt is concerned about "becoming like mother" he recognized something in his behavior that resembled his mother's slow descent into madness. We don't know what that was, but it must have frightened him intensely. He did not consider some of the Druitt famiy traits (a propensity to diabitis, and frequent suicides by family members) as related by common physical points - he just noted the similarity of his behavioral quirks to his mother's.

Jeff

[Robert]

Hi Pink

The thing is, people had a strong belief in genetics in those days, and it's possible that Monty started to wonder if his mother's illness would strike him too. If he was particularly concerned about this, it's possible that he started to watch himself, to see if any signs appeared. And it's in the nature of such things that one starts to see things which aren't there.

Of course there's no evidence of this. I suggest it merely as a possibility.

[pinkmoon]

I don't think his mother's illness on its own would have pushed him to suicide maybe combined with his sacking.It would be so helpfully if we could every find out why he was sacked and WHEN.Has anyone every tried to trace Mr valentines descendents?

[Robert]

An example of how an intelligent man can get a bee in his bonnet about something, with tragic consequences. In Monty's case the 'cancer' could have been his mother's mental illness which he feared would strike him too.

http://www.thisisthewestcountry.co.u...inquest_heard/

[RavenDarkendale]

Thanks for the shared humor, guys, it made my day. I imagine the lawyer for the defense would say something like: "My uh, (gag, cough) client here (sound of buzzing flies) was definitely (in nasal tones from holding his nose) NOT involved.

Prosecutor: "I was going to object your Honor, but (shoooooweeee) I'll pass.

Judge: (Ralphing into the waste-can) Case dismissed! Get him outta here and bury him deep!

[andy1867]

Fascinating figure Druitt, I read or heard someone...think it might have been one of the podcasts where someone said...and I paraphrase
"His cricket performance dropped off somewhat during the period of the murders"

One game he took a 5 for, haven't got the runs against his bowling, but as the opposing side were bowled out for 61, they must have been EXTREMELY good figures Monty returned.
8th of September he took 3 wickets out of a total of 93...still not too shabby
They are the only 2 games I can find I'm afraid on Cricinfo...
I would be very interested if someone could point me in the direction of other games he played in....(Yea I know I'm always asking for stuff)
but I love Cricket and played a lot though never got figures anything like Montys...even at a far lower level...(although it was in Yorkshire so was probably akin lol)
As for his sacking, could it have been financial irregularities?
Was he not sacked from his Job as treasurer at Blackheath CC around the same time.?
I did read somewhere he went AWOL, but I played cricket for 30 years and was ALWAYS AWOL in November.
Unless of course his duties as Treasurer carried on through the close season