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A New Line of Inquiry into Montague John Druitt.

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  • A New Line of Inquiry into Montague John Druitt.



    I’m a newcomer here so please be gentle. I have looked through each of the forum sections looking to see if anyone has asked or even inquired into the areas of speculation I am exploring but have found nothing so, despite having not posted in any threads previously I have started this thread. I hope my inquiries will spark some discussion and answer the questions I have, or at the very least entertain some of you.


    I have been perusing this site and its forums for some years now, investigating the Whitechapel murders, but I would not go so far as to call myself an amateur Ripperologist. Twice or thrice removed maybe.



    My first inquiry, for there will be others, is regarding Montague John Druitt, a long proposed suspect in the Whitechapel murders of 1888. My belief that he is not a suspect is irrelevant, and will in no way form a bias in this, or subsequent queries, for I believe that all discourse should be free from bias and personal attacks; one should debate the topic at hand not the personalities of those partaking in said debate.


    That said, let’s get to the point. My question, if anyone is able to answer it, or find any information relating to the question, understanding of course that some records have been lost over the 130 + years, is this:


    Montague John Druitt was a barrister (among other things). Does anyone know who he worked for, both in terms of a solicitors firm and/or in terms of clients?

  • #2
    Welcome. I personally enjoy seeing new people take an interest and get involved. I think fresh eyes can really add value.

    Don't be intimidated by some of the pomposity that can occasionally rear its head. Nobody has conclusive answers, even though many of us will defend our own candidates to the hilt. Sometimes to the point of extreme division. I'm sure you will figure that out for yourself soon enough

    MJD is a bona fide suspect because he was named by police close to the time of the murders as being one. You would also put Kosminksi, Ostorg and Tumblety (albeit this was not publicly known until much later) on that list. Unless any other material comes to light that we can date to serving police officers of the era, then these names remain the only ones we know where police officers regarded them as suspects.

    Arguably, Kosminksi would be regarded as the prime suspect due to Anderson's statements, which were later endorsed by Swanson. MacNaghten also named him. MacNaghten is the only police officer (I know of) who has named MJD.

    There is actually quite a bit on his background on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montague_Druitt, and although I have not read any books on him specifically, I am certain there is more than one on him. Herlock would know more!

    Welcome.
    Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
    JayHartley.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by snorkelbottom View Post

      I’m a newcomer here so please be gentle. I have looked through each of the forum sections looking to see if anyone has asked or even inquired into the areas of speculation I am exploring but have found nothing so, despite having not posted in any threads previously I have started this thread. I hope my inquiries will spark some discussion and answer the questions I have, or at the very least entertain some of you.


      I have been perusing this site and its forums for some years now, investigating the Whitechapel murders, but I would not go so far as to call myself an amateur Ripperologist. Twice or thrice removed maybe.



      My first inquiry, for there will be others, is regarding Montague John Druitt, a long proposed suspect in the Whitechapel murders of 1888. My belief that he is not a suspect is irrelevant, and will in no way form a bias in this, or subsequent queries, for I believe that all discourse should be free from bias and personal attacks; one should debate the topic at hand not the personalities of those partaking in said debate.


      That said, let’s get to the point. My question, if anyone is able to answer it, or find any information relating to the question, understanding of course that some records have been lost over the 130 + years, is this:


      Montague John Druitt was a barrister (among other things). Does anyone know who he worked for, both in terms of a solicitors firm and/or in terms of clients?
      Hi Snorkelbottom,

      Welcome to Casebook.


      I’m probably telling you things that you already know but her goes….


      Druitt was called to the bar on April 29th 1885 and rented chambers at 9 Kings Bench Walk, Inner Temple. We know that he defended Henry William Young who murdered his baby son in the early part of 1887.

      We know that he was working with his brother William who was in business with his (and Monty’s) cousin James just before Monty died in December of 1888. William’s practice was in Bournemouth. Druitt vs Gosling.

      I can’t recall if any other cases are known though. There certainly might be cases on record but from memory I can’t think of any. Sorry it’s not much help.


      Regards

      Sir Herlock Sholmes

      “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

      Comment


      • #4
        may the force be with you !

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by snorkelbottom View Post

          I’m a newcomer here so please be gentle. I have looked through each of the forum sections looking to see if anyone has asked or even inquired into the areas of speculation I am exploring but have found nothing so, despite having not posted in any threads previously I have started this thread. I hope my inquiries will spark some discussion and answer the questions I have, or at the very least entertain some of you.


          I have been perusing this site and its forums for some years now, investigating the Whitechapel murders, but I would not go so far as to call myself an amateur Ripperologist. Twice or thrice removed maybe.



          My first inquiry, for there will be others, is regarding Montague John Druitt, a long proposed suspect in the Whitechapel murders of 1888. My belief that he is not a suspect is irrelevant, and will in no way form a bias in this, or subsequent queries, for I believe that all discourse should be free from bias and personal attacks; one should debate the topic at hand not the personalities of those partaking in said debate.


          That said, let’s get to the point. My question, if anyone is able to answer it, or find any information relating to the question, understanding of course that some records have been lost over the 130 + years, is this:


          Montague John Druitt was a barrister (among other things). Does anyone know who he worked for, both in terms of a solicitors firm and/or in terms of clients?
          welcome to the nut house!
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks to your guy's help I believe this...

            https://www.druitts.co.uk/

            ...maybe the same solicitors that MJD's brother and cousin worked for, which is a step closer.

            But, MJD wasn't a struggling barrister, but I am struggling to find which solicitors he represented before his suicide.


            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by snorkelbottom View Post
              Thanks to your guy's help I believe this...

              https://www.druitts.co.uk/

              ...maybe the same solicitors that MJD's brother and cousin worked for, which is a step closer.

              But, MJD wasn't a struggling barrister, but I am struggling to find which solicitors he represented before his suicide.
              Hi Snorkelbottom,

              Welcome to the madhouse.

              My understanding is that Monty had his own practice which his father had helped financially to establish. That is why he received very little from his father's will as he had already had an advance. He was not so much struggling as newly established. Both prior to and after his admittance to the bar he worked as a school master at Blackheath. There has been much discussion on Druitt which you can find here:
              https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...-montague-john

              I hope your new perspective leads to productive debate.

              Cheers, George
              “Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”

              “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.” “How do you know I'm mad?” said Alice. “You must be,” said the Cat, or you wouldn't have come here.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Welcome to boards Snorkel.

                Other than curiosity, is there something more to your desire to establish which, if any, law firm employed Monty?
                Thems the Vagaries.....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by snorkelbottom View Post
                  Thanks to your guy's help I believe this...

                  https://www.druitts.co.uk/

                  ...maybe the same solicitors that MJD's brother and cousin worked for, which is a step closer.

                  But, MJD wasn't a struggling barrister, but I am struggling to find which solicitors he represented before his suicide.

                  He would have got work through his Chambers. I don’t think that he worked for a particular company. I’m unsure about the word ‘struggling’ though. After all he did take a job at the Blackheath School to supplement his earnings and, as George has said, his father wasn’t keen on him entering that profession and so only agreed to advance him money to be deducted from his inheritance. The built of the estate going to William.
                  Regards

                  Sir Herlock Sholmes

                  “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It might not come as a surprise to many on here, but I do have fairly regular email correspondence with Keith Skinner, a historical researcher in this field of some note. There are not many more knowledgeable on the Ripper than he! He has been polite enough to indulge my requests for James Maybrick / diary-related material.

                    Keith does not post on the forums, but he does swing by them occasionally to read the latest threads on various facets of the Ripper case. This thread seems to have caught his interest as he asked me to share some information.

                    From Keith:

                    "Druitt has always been my preferred suspect since the mid 1970s. I started researching him at the beginning of 1980 which resulted in the book I co-authored with Martin (Howells) The Ripper Legacy (largely forgotten now!) which was published by Sidgwick & Jackson in 1987.
                    I thought the poster might be interested to see the Druitt family tree I sketched out in the early 1980s and which covered one wall of my flat. The two boxes are full of Druitt material, majority of it unused, as it was superfluous to our narrative. I remember being given address books/birthday books/diaries by a collateral descendant I traced (I think 1984) and recorded an interview with her. I donated the material to the West Sussex Record Office to add to their Druitt collection."
                    Attached Files
                    Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                    JayHartley.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am glad my somewhat ambiguous queries into Montague John Druitt have riled up some interest, though, in all honesty, I did not expect to see so much interest so it will be interesting to see as my queries continue and my chain of thought becomes apparent, how it is received and debated.


                      So far, while Druitts solicitors in Bournemouth may be the same solicitors that MJD’s brother William and cousin James had worked, it also seems that MJD’s relative success as a barrister was of his own volition, with assistance here and there from contemporaries, and bolstered by his fathers advance, no less.


                      I was hoping that MJD had worked for a solicitor that was still active, but if he was independent, of a fashion, then that may make it hard to track down records of any and all of the clients he represented. With MJD being “independent” I suspect he was likely in charge of his own records and that they were lost or destroyed following his suicide and suspicions that he was the Ripper. Unless they were stored in chambers at the Inner Temple, which is a possibility, but I suspect that would be a long shot at best.


                      I do have a theory, a chain of thought if you will, but I am letting the facts guide me, wherever they may lead. I understand my vague ambiguity may come across as secretive and mysterious, but I suspect as we collectively chip away at this line of inquiry together, with all of your learned help of course, that my suspicion regarding MJD will come to light and, hopefully, uncover some new information.


                      Sadly I am not a barrister or involved with the law in any manner so this field is somewhat, logically speaking aside, unfamiliar to me. At this moment in time, as I alluded to a couple of paragraphs earlier, I am hoping to discover and ideally peruse a list of MJD's clients, more specifically those he represented both in and out of court in the months before his suicide.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Didn't MJD join Sir Arthur Richard Jelf's practice at 9 KBW. I believe I have seen ARJ listed in a directory prior to MJD being listed there.
                        Also a member of the famous Bosanquet family. Frederick Albert Bosanquet?? Working from memory.

                        Searching Jelf & Bosanquet here on CB might find some related info.

                        I did suggest once on CB that searching for these records, with the idea of +alibing+ MJD.

                        I didn't follow this up myself.
                        Last edited by mpriestnall; 09-24-2022, 01:49 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Look into The Law Reports ,Appeals before the house of lords 1888 going backwards.Google books.1 case I remember as an appeal for voter eligibility,I forgot the year since it was last year I saw it,just do a search of the text.Another one I think is White vs Tyndall in Feb 16 1888.
                          You could also do a search for Queens Division,Chancery Division.
                          I'm not sure it is THE MJ Druitt,I think it is.Im not interested in him as a suspect.
                          Last edited by Varqm; 09-24-2022, 05:30 PM.
                          Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced,it started civil society).
                          M. Pacana

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by erobitha View Post
                            It might not come as a surprise to many on here, but I do have fairly regular email correspondence with Keith Skinner, a historical researcher in this field of some note. There are not many more knowledgeable on the Ripper than he! He has been polite enough to indulge my requests for James Maybrick / diary-related material.

                            Keith does not post on the forums, but he does swing by them occasionally to read the latest threads on various facets of the Ripper case. This thread seems to have caught his interest as he asked me to share some information.

                            From Keith:

                            "Druitt has always been my preferred suspect since the mid 1970s. I started researching him at the beginning of 1980 which resulted in the book I co-authored with Martin (Howells) The Ripper Legacy (largely forgotten now!) which was published by Sidgwick & Jackson in 1987.
                            I thought the poster might be interested to see the Druitt family tree I sketched out in the early 1980s and which covered one wall of my flat. The two boxes are full of Druitt material, majority of it unused, as it was superfluous to our narrative. I remember being given address books/birthday books/diaries by a collateral descendant I traced (I think 1984) and recorded an interview with her. I donated the material to the West Sussex Record Office to add to their Druitt collection."
                            It's a real pity that Keith doesn't post. His input on Druitt discussions would have been extremely valued. And at least it would show that I'm not alone in finding Druitt the most interesting of suspects. His book with Martin Howells was the one that really got me interested in Druitt after reading Farson and Cullen.

                            Regards to Keith.
                            Regards

                            Sir Herlock Sholmes

                            “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                              It's a real pity that Keith doesn't post. His input on Druitt discussions would have been extremely valued. And at least it would show that I'm not alone in finding Druitt the most interesting of suspects. His book with Martin Howells was the one that really got me interested in Druitt after reading Farson and Cullen.

                              Regards to Keith.
                              Whilst I personally have no qualms in descending into Maybrick mud fights, I suspect Keith probably finds it all a bit distracting from genuine discussion and investigation for the truth. Also between me and you, I genuinely think Keith has more challenges with modern tech than you Herlock

                              I’m sure if you have anything specific on Druitt, as I’m sure he will do as he’s done for me, and that is offer any help he can if he can. I have the utmost respect for his work, even if we don’t share the same preferred suspects.
                              Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                              JayHartley.com

                              Comment

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