Druitt info

[Adam Went]

Hi MWR and all,

Ah, thanks for pointing that out, very interesting! I was just aware that 8 ball overs had been the norm in olden-day cricket.....seems odd that in those figures they would give the number of balls bowled rather than the number of overs. (Being a one-day match, I wonder if limitations of 10 overs per bowler applied in 1888, as they do in one-day cricket now?)

As for our man Monty only making 2 with the bat in that game before being clean bowled....poor technique, Monty. Probably went for a great big dirty slog trying to hit the ball into the next suburb and saw his stumps cartwheeling behind him. Or heard the "death rattle" as we call it.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Johnr]

I'm Off To Start A New Thread...

Thanks very much for that link Phil,

How coincidental. I don't know a huge amount about cricket stats. , but can understand them. A very informative post on W.G. Well done IMHO. Most of which I was unaware of. Was W.G's father, by any chance a doctor - a surgeon even?

Mr Twibbs,
Thanks for your observations. So you were already aware of both those Druitt books.
Sorry if it looks like I'm being bossy; but I would just like to know if any evidence of MJD undertaking medical studies, exists.
A thorough study of Montague's time at Oxford would be very important. John Leighton's book gives a rough indication of his movements, at least during the cricket season.
Howells and Skinner's book gives some detail of other Oxford matters. But there has never been a full investigation.
I'm off to start a new thread, asking if playing cricket abolishes a possibility of being a serial killer.

JOHN RUFFELS.

[m_w_r]

Basically thats a very good performance...

Or not. The Christopherson Brothers, Blackheath's opponents, made 93, with Sidney contributing 40 and Stanley and Extras 10 each. But if Ireland had taken all ten wickets at the rate at which he got his five, the Christopherson Brothers would have made 58. If Fegan had got all ten wickets at the rate at which he got his one, the Christopherson brothers would have made 70. If Monty had laboured on until he got all ten wickets at the rate at which he got his three, the Christopherson brothers would have got 127 (rounding up to the nearest integer), and Blackheath would have lost the match, as they had only made 115. Bowling the wicketless Monkland was obviously a mistake, but Monty wasn't clawing victory back through his penurious run-rate; in fact, it was a good job that Ireland was in good form at the other end. To Monty's credit, though, he could obviously bowl straight, as all three of his victims - in a cricketing sense - were bowled.

Incidentally, apropos my previous post, I've just realised that the last man out in the Christopherson Brothers' innings was not the number eleven batsman, as this was apparently a ten-a-side game; but the point still stands.

Regards,

Mark

[MrTwibbs]

Mr Twibbs,

Well done with tracking back to the Winchester mention of Montague Druitt and his (alleged) surgical studies.
The unnamed author of that information for Wimborne Cemetery mentions the surgical skills bit twice. So perhaps that was a bit of "special pleading". Just what concrete evidence that writer had for their statements, would be very interesting to see.
(There was some suggestion of an unexplained gap in Druitt's career. Just after he graduated. Some suggested a break-down, others, unrevealed studies - possibly in medicine. I think Daniel Farson's book suggested this).

Why, look at W.G. Grace. Don't you think he would have been capable of murder? I won't even mention Jardine!



JOHN RUFFELS.

Hi John,

I know who Douglas Jardine is.I'm very interested in cricket and know of his position within the Bodyline tour of 1932/33 using Larwood and Voce as main spearheads. He was an unusual character. I've seen some video interviews with him also when he was on the ship to australia. He played for Winchester college i think and usually opened the batting for surrey. Quite an arrogant chap he was but anyway obviously very good at planning so hats off to him even though i do no agree with his methods.

And yes thanks, i'll try to research the bit more about his alleged surgical studies. I will see if there's any other records which may give a clue. Perhaps his time at Oxford. Worth revisiting this.

[MrTwibbs]

My problem is I don't know the first thing about cricket. Anyway, I think you will find the scorecard on p. 217 of D.J. Leighton's Montague Druitt: Portrait of a Contender.

It says (and this is Greek to me) that Druitt got 80 Balls, 4 Mdns, 38 Runs, 3 Wkts. Blackheath won by 22 runs.

Thanks, I found this in the book too.Basically thats a very good performance, took 3 wickets and 4 maidens which no runs conceded against. He bowled very ecomically and usually opened bowling so i assume he was of medium pace possibly fast medium. He was obviously very agile person. The more I read of him though the more I admire him and feel sorry.

more info here and this is the bible of cricket stats and players.
http://www.cricinfo.com/england/cont...yer/11949.html

[m_w_r]

This would have been in the days of 8-ball overs (as opposed to 6-ball overs in today's cricket, for the uninitiated), therefore, that means that Druitt bowled 10 overs...

Does it say whether he batted in that game and how many runs he scored?

Hi Adam,

Actually, it looks as if they were experimenting with five-ball overs, as the figures for the other three bowlers used are (name/balls/maidens/runs/wickets) Ireland 79-4-29-5, Monkland 15-0-9-0, and Fegan 15-1-7-1. The last wicket was that of the number eleven batsman, which fell to Ireland, presumably on the penultimate ball of his sixteenth over. Druitt's economy rate was therefore probably 2.375 runs per over.

Blackheath batted first, and Druitt, batting four, made 2 before being bowled by a chap named Stanley.

Regards,

Mark

[Adam Went]

Hey GM,

Thanks very much for that. I'm presuming by "got" 80 balls, you mean he bowled 80 balls. This would have been in the days of 8-ball overs (as opposed to 6-ball overs in today's cricket, for the uninitiated), therefore, that means that Druitt bowled 10 overs, (maiden = an over bowled where no runs are scored by the batsman - unless you count byes or leg-byes which count as extras and don't go against the bowler, but I won't complicate it too much ), and had 38 runs taken off him at an economy rate of 3.8 per over.....hmm, those are pretty good figures. Especially for somebody who some would suggest was wandering the streets at 5.30 that morning.

Does it say whether he batted in that game and how many runs he scored?

Thanks again,
Cheers,
Adam.

[The Grave Maurice]

My problem is I don't know the first thing about cricket. Anyway, I think you will find the scorecard on p. 217 of D.J. Leighton's Montague Druitt: Portrait of a Contender.

It says (and this is Greek to me) that Druitt got 80 Balls, 4 Mdns, 38 Runs, 3 Wkts. Blackheath won by 22 runs.

[Adam Went]

Stupid question time, but i'm curious:

Has anybody ever managed to track down the cricket scorecard from the game Druitt played on September 8, 1888, following Annie's murder?

I found a couple of scorecards online a long time ago, both from 1888 but neither of them from this particular game....

Cheers,
Adam.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Johnr,

Thats bowling 'em a wrong un.. perhaps even a chinaman.

have a look at this..W.G Grace indeed..LOL.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=9106&page=5

post 48



best wishes

phil

[Robert]

Grace would have used an oversized knife.

[Johnr]

Good Going: You're Under Way..

Mr Twibbs,

Well done with tracking back to the Winchester mention of Montague Druitt and his (alleged) surgical studies.
The unnamed author of that information for Wimborne Cemetery mentions the surgical skills bit twice. So perhaps that was a bit of "special pleading". Just what concrete evidence that writer had for their statements, would be very interesting to see.
(There was some suggestion of an unexplained gap in Druitt's career. Just after he graduated. Some suggested a break-down, others, unrevealed studies - possibly in medicine. I think Daniel Farson's book suggested this).

Being a 'cricket tragic', you will have found a kindred spirit in author, D.J.Leighton and his book: 'Montague Druitt: Portrait Of A Contender' (Hydrangea Publishing, 6 Walnut Tree Cottages, London, SW19 5DN: 2004) and of course, 'The Ripper Legacy: The Life and Death of Jack the Ripper' by Martin Howells and Keith Skinner:Sidgwick & Jackson:London: 1987.

Both books deal with Druitt's career so far as it was known at the date they were published.

As for myself, the Edwardian belief in fresh air and team sports for a healthy mind. That because someone plays cricket they could not possibly be a serial killer.....Is an oversimplification of a very complicated World.

Why, look at W.G. Grace. Don't you think he would have been capable of murder? I won't even mention Jardine!

(Apologies to Casebook readers who do notunderstand cricket.The last two persons mentioned, in my opinion, would do anything to win the game!).

JOHN RUFFELS.

[Robert]

Hi Mr Twibbs

Well, I dare say they are pestered at least three or four times a year by people following up on Druitt. I seem to remember someone did get a bit of info from them a few years ago - not sure though.

[MrTwibbs]

I contacted Blackheath CC which is local to me, and their response to my questions on whether they had any pictures, descriptions of him or other information was terse to say the least

"he was a member, long time ago nothing to see"

The person that replied managed to tell me two things I already knew as in he was a member and it was a long time ago.

Good to see the English language is well used. Am surprised they have no other information or pictures

[MrTwibbs]

Thanks to m_j_r I now have a copy of the Druitt letter. I've also been studying a few cricket scorecards and he was an opening bowler and usually batted anywhere from 6 down to number 10. He was a bit of an all rounder and did score in the region of 40-60 on occasion. And wow his bowling was excellent, he took 10 wickets in a match twice from the records i've seen. This is an excellent accomplishment in any form of the game whether now or 100 years ago. He played against the Hearne brothers and this is a great cricketing family. I believe George Hearne played for England.
If Monte had taken his cricket more seriously he could have played for Kent. As for comments i've read that his form fell away in 1887 well anyone who plays cricket will know that in order to be consistent you need constant practice, match play and your mind must be in it. Give Druitt's depression, having to do 2 jobs i.e. teacher and "special pleader" no wonder his form fell away so emphasis cannot be put on his playing form.

I';m going to get his handwriting independently examined. Luckily my neighbour is a very famous former member of CID so will ask him initially for his contacts in the yard to look it over if possible.