Reasons why?

[Lewis C]

Do we know what Macnaghten meant when he said that Druitt was sexually insane? Might he have merely meant that Druitt was gay? Or did something else tht Victorians strongly disapproved of, but that today would not cause us to think that he was likely to kill and mutilate women?

[Lewis C]

My view on Druitt FWIW:

1. Definitely NOT JTR.
2. Murdered by a masonic cabal to keep him quiet about the knowledge he had of JTR's and Astrakhan's identities.

I suspect this will not be a popular point of view.

If we reject Macnaghten's belief that Druitt was JtR, then is there any reason for us to believe that Druitt had knowledge of JTR's and Astrakhan's identities?

[Wickerman]

It is not a question of how often he consulted the files.

The question is: why, when he was compiling a formal report, he appears not to have consulted the files at all.

I think the whole question of whether or not Mac. did consult the files only has validity with Ostrog, who was a known criminal so Scotland Yard must have had a file on him.
We cannot say the same about Kozminski & Druitt, though there may have been a medical file on Kozminski, but that would not be at Scotland Yard.

If Anderson really knew the truth about Kosminski and it was as explosive as he made it out to be, then why would there not have been a file containing such information about him?

I'm not as flexible with Kozminski, from everything I've read about him he appears to be an afterthought by Anderson, he selected him long after the murders which explains why there didn't appear to be a criminal file on the man.
All Anderson had was a medical file, and his own theories. His dogmatic assertions about an incarcerated, insane Jew was sufficient for both Macnaghten & Swanson to not contradict their boss - in my opinion.

And if he got his information from Anderson and if Swanson got his information from Anderson, then why does Swanson have Kosminski dying soon after the last murder was committed, whereas Macnaghten has him still being alive more than five years later?

And if Swanson got his information from Anderson, then why did Anderson indicate to his publishers that Kosminski was still alive more than 20 years after the murders ended?

Guessing why anyone gets anything wrong is always a challenge, especially when we have no official paperwork.
Macnaghten agrees with Anderson in so far as Koz. is alive in 1894.
Anderson seems to have been right as to Koz. being alive, Swanson got it wrong for some reason, or as he was making notes at least after 1910, he misremembered.

[Wickerman]

Do we know what Macnaghten meant when he said that Druitt was sexually insane? Might he have merely meant that Druitt was gay? Or did something else tht Victorians strongly disapproved of, but that today would not cause us to think that he was likely to kill and mutilate women?

We've had long debates on that, opinions expressed in the late 19th century, as opposed to today, suggest he meant 'oversexed', if I recall correctly.
The idea he was gay is modern, based primarily on the fact he taught at a boys school. But we also looked at the employees at the school and there were female cleaners & cookery staff listed, so it is not true to suggest he surrounded himself with boys. Separate schools for boys and girls was the norm for the middle class and above, in his day.

[mpriestnall]

Don't tell me Astrakhan was a member of staff at Druitt's school!

No, however I do believe the murders was undertaken by middle class men (JTR and Astrakhan) which opens the possibility of another member of the same class (Druitt) sharing a connection to the murderers, perhaps hearing rumours and putting two and two together. The murderers didn't operate in a vacuum and clues to identities and motives may have slipped out and Druitt, by the law of large numbers, just happen to be the (unlucky) one to whom sufficient identifying information came

[mpriestnall]

If we reject Macnaghten's belief that Druitt was JtR, then is there any reason for us to believe that Druitt had knowledge of JTR's and Astrakhan's identities?

Please see my answer to P.I.

I know my answer is not going to be that satisfying to anyone, but I don't find the reason for Druitt being JTR that saisfying either.

Decades after Macnaghten, successive police chiefs (and G.R. Sims) claimed the "drowned barrister/teacher was JTR", yet without being able or willing to add one scintilla of extra information to their claims. Does that fact support or undermine their claims?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I'm not as flexible with Kozminski, from everything I've read about him he appears to be an afterthought by Anderson, he selected him long after the murders which explains why there didn't appear to be a criminal file on the man.

I used the same word - afterthought - in a post about a year ago, about both Kosminski and Druitt.

It was only because Kosminski was confined in an asylum and Druitt committed suicide that they became 'suspects'.

Indeed, Anderson originally had Kosminski in an asylum by the time the alleged identification took place, and Abberline actually stated that there was no other reason than his suicide for thinking that Druitt could have had anything to do with the murders.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

So would you say that all suspects should be dismissed or would you say that it’s possible that there might more to some suspects? Macnaghten clearly felt that there was reason for suspecting Druitt

I would not dismiss suspects in the sense of wanting to end discussion.

I am quite content to present my case in favour of their innocence.

I do not believe that any person named as the murderer had any connection with the murders.

Nor do I believe that it is possible to determine the identity of the murderer at this late stage.

As you say, Macnaghten suspected Druitt, but then others point to the fact that Swanson suspected Kosminski and Abberline suspected Kłosowski.

The questions I would ask are: why did Swanson not suspect Druitt? Why was Macnaghten inclined to exonerate Kosminski? Why did Abberline suspect neither Druitt nor Kosminski? Why was Anderson uninterested in the case against Druitt?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Do we know what Macnaghten meant when he said that Druitt was sexually insane? Might he have merely meant that Druitt was gay? Or did something else tht Victorians strongly disapproved of, but that today would not cause us to think that he was likely to kill and mutilate women?

I am glad you asked those questions!

I was thinking along similar lines the other day and when I looked up the definition of sexual insanity, I came across the following:

'unhealthily obsessed with sexual activity'.

As far as we know, the nearest Druitt came to being obsessed with an activity was in the field of cricket.

An important question is: what did Victorians, and in particular Macnaghten, understand by the term 'sexual insanity', bearing in mind that it appears that Kosminski's schizophrenia symptoms were believed by Macnaghten to have been caused by excessive masturbation.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It was only because Kosminski was confined in an asylum and Druitt committed suicide that they became 'suspects'.
.

Why do you assume this to be the case in regard to Druitt? Macnaghten said that he'd received information which led him to consider Druitt a suspect. Yes we don't know what that information was but why should we assume that it never existed?

As I've asked before - why, if he was simply looking for a name to add to his 'better than Cutbush' list, didn't he pick a more convincing suspect than Druitt? A man in Macnaghten's position would have had his pick from any number of dead criminals, lower class suicides, dead vagrants and incarcerated or dead lunatics. Any of which he could have named without risk of comebacks. Yet he chose an well-to-do Barrister who also worked at a posh school. A man who was related by marriage to one of his best friends. A man who, if someone looked into his life, might have been discovered to have had an alibi, for eg. a court appearance or some school or cricket-related business.

Don't you find it strange to say the least that Mcnaghten, a part of the upper class establishment, would have randomly suggested someone like Druitt as the ripper knowing full well that he was entirely innocence?

[Abby Normal]

Why do you assume this to be the case in regard to Druitt? Macnaghten said that he'd received information which led him to consider Druitt a suspect. Yes we don't know what that information was but why should we assume that it never existed?

As I've asked before - why, if he was simply looking for a name to add to his 'better than Cutbush' list, didn't he pick a more convincing suspect than Druitt? A man in Macnaghten's position would have had his pick from any number of dead criminals, lower class suicides, dead vagrants and incarcerated or dead lunatics. Any of which he could have named without risk of comebacks. Yet he chose an well-to-do Barrister who also worked at a posh school. A man who was related by marriage to one of his best friends. A man who, if someone looked into his life, might have been discovered to have had an alibi, for eg. a court appearance or some school or cricket-related business.

Don't you find it strange to say the least that Mcnaghten, a part of the upper class establishment, would have randomly suggested someone like Druitt as the ripper knowing full well that he was entirely innocence?

yes it would be. MM put him forward as a suspect despite the family friends tie and same upper class status because he heard that someone in druitts family suspected him as the ripper, and MM felt it was reliable info. we dont know the reasons why his family suspected but it was enough for MM, a man, who as you say, would have had access to info to point to any number of other valid suspects. yet he went with Druitt. So unless info comes up that absolutely exonnerates Druitt, like ostrog, then a valid suspect he remains.

[Herlock Sholmes]

yes it would be. MM put him forward as a suspect despite the family friends tie and same upper class status because he heard that someone in druitts family suspected him as the ripper, and MM felt it was reliable info. we dont know the reasons why his family suspected but it was enough for MM, a man, who as you say, would have had access to info to point to any number of other valid suspects. yet he went with Druitt. So unless info comes up that absolutely exonnerates Druitt, like ostrog, then a valid suspect he remains.

Exactly Abby. The info might not have been accurate but Macnaghten clearly felt it was good. Maybe Druitt was just behaving strangely and something about his behaviour made his family suspicious? Maybe he came home on the night of one of the murders with blood on him…but perhaps he’d just gotten into a fight? It’s difficult to see a family like the Druitt’s raising suspicions about Monty unless they had felt that they had reason to though. In the absence of more evidence I just think that it’s better to keep an open mind on Druitt….even if someone thinks him a weak suspect. As many do of course.

[Wickerman]

I used the same word - afterthought - in a post about a year ago, about both Kosminski and Druitt.

It was only because Kosminski was confined in an asylum and Druitt committed suicide that they became 'suspects'.

At the time - maybe, but since, we have found out so much circumstantial evidence, rumors, beliefs, etc., that Druitt was a possible candidate. Herlock will remember this better than I do, but there was a 19th century rumor that Jack the Ripper had lived at Blackheath, or something like that. I should look it up, but where on earth could a rumor like that have come from if suspicion about Druitt was only remarked on by Mac. in that memorandum, and nowhere else?
There's more to this line of thinking than we know of.

[rjpalmer]

At the time - maybe, but since, we have found out so much circumstantial evidence, rumors, beliefs, etc., that Druitt was a possible candidate. Herlock will remember this better than I do, but there was a 19th century rumor that Jack the Ripper had lived at Blackheath, or something like that. I should look it up, but where on earth could a rumor like that have come from if suspicion about Druitt was only remarked on by Mac. in that memorandum, and nowhere else?
There's more to this line of thinking than we know of.

It's from My Life and a Few Yarns by H. L. Fleet.

Fleet discusses moving back to Blackheath in 1895 and remarks:

"When we lived there formerly, it was considered dangerous, for a terrible series of crimes committed by Jack the Ripper were then being perpetrated, and many people believed he lived in Blackheath."

See Hainsworth, p. 112-113.

The 1891 UK Census shows Admiral Henry Fleet living in Minster in Sheppey, so presumably he was in Blackheath before this. I don't have a hard date or address.

[Sunny Delight]

Exactly Abby. The info might not have been accurate but Macnaghten clearly felt it was good. Maybe Druitt was just behaving strangely and something about his behaviour made his family suspicious? Maybe he came home on the night of one of the murders with blood on him…but perhaps he’d just gotten into a fight? It’s difficult to see a family like the Druitt’s raising suspicions about Monty unless they had felt that they had reason to though. In the absence of more evidence I just think that it’s better to keep an open mind on Druitt….even if someone thinks him a weak suspect. As many do of course.

We can only speculate on what MM heard, however due to the fact Druitt committed suicide he may have been acting in a way deemed out of character for quite some time. Who knows how long he battled suicidal thoughts? Maybe his family felt retrospectively that he was behaving this way due to the murders he committed. Who knows. We do know a lot more about mental health issues now though and how it can affect personality for months leading up to a suicide attempt.