Reasons why?

[Darryl Kenyon]

If MM didn't know that Druitt was a teacher its unlikely that his comment about Druitt being sexually insane was about him and the boys at his school. But was It ? . MM Days of my Life -
“As I have said before, when writing of the Whitechapel murders, such madness takes Protean forms. Very few people, except barristers, doctors, and police officers, realize that such a thing as sexual mania exists, and, in a murder case similar to the two mentioned above, it is a most difficult task for prosecuting counsel to make a jury fully understand that it supplies and accounts for the complete absence of any other motive for the crime.
Students of history, however, are aware that an excessive indulgence in vice leads, in certain cases, to a craving for blood. Nero was probably a sexual maniac. Many Eastern potentates in all ages, who loved to see slaves slaughtered or wild beasts tearing each other to pieces, have been similarly affected. The disease is not as rare as many people imagine. As you walk in the London streets you may, and do, not infrequently jostle against a potential murderer of the so-called Jack the Ripper type. The subject is not a pleasant one, but to those who study the depths of human nature it is intensely interesting.’

I have highlighted Barristers and Doctors because I am just wondering if MM is alluding to the fact that Druitt knew he was sexually insane and that contributed towards his suicide .

Also when we look at the Littlechild letter, Littlechild himself writes -
It is very strange how those given to 'Contrary sexual instinct' and 'degenerates' are given to cruelty, even Wilde used to like to be punched about. It may interest you if I give you an example of this cruelty in the case of the man Harry Thaw and this is authentic as I have the boy's statement. Thaw was staying at the Carlton Hotel and one day laid out a lot of sovereigns on his dressing table, then rang for a call boy on pretence of sending out a telegram. He made some excuse and went out of the room and left the boy there and watched through the chink of the door. The unfortunate boy was tempted and took a sovereign from the pile and Thaw returning to the room charged him with stealing. The boy confessed when Thaw asked whether he should send for the police or whether he should punish him himself. The boy scared to death consented to take his punishment from Thaw who then made him undress, strapped him to the foot of the bedstead, and thrashed him with a cane, drawing blood. He then made the boy get into a bath in which he placed a quantity of salt. It seems incredible that such a thing could take place in any hotel but it is a fact. This was in 1906.

The main purpose of the correspondence to Sims is to seem to answer a question regarding Dr D [ Druitt ] . Yet Littlechild mentions a case where a man seems to be indulging in Sado Masochistic pleasures towards a young man

It seems likely to me in both comments by both policemen that sexual insanity could be defined as having said Sado masochistic tendencies. Was this Druitts vice, so to speak ?
I do find it interesting that Littlechild mentions the pain and humiliation the call boy had to endure . Was Druitt doing something similar to his pupils, craving sexual gratification through, say making the boys strip before he caned them ? Had Sims mentioned this to Littlechild in his previous correspondence ?

Did MM not mention the P/T teacher role of Druitt and instead hedging his bets wrote " Said to be a Doctor " [ when MM may have thought Druitt had had some training, yet mentioning privately to Sims that he was also a P/T teacher and that's were his sexual insanity came from, cruelty to his pupils ] , because he was protecting Blackheath's schools reputation ? Just a few thoughts

Regards Darryl

[Herlock Sholmes]

Of course it is valid.

The reason I have been making that point is that it means that Macnaghten could hardly have known about the dismissal.

The suggestion you made in # 189 - 'Perhaps they had just told Macnaghten that ‘he’d recently been sacked from his job,’ without mentioning that it was at a school?' - would imply that Macnaghten thought that Druitt had been struck off the medical register.

No. It could have simply meant that he was dismissed from a hospital or clinic.

Do you find that plausible?


In that case, one could reasonably expect Macnaghten to have written that Druitt was said to have been a doctor who had been struck off, rather than just a doctor of good family.

Not if he hadn’t been told about the dismissal.

Would you not therefore agree with me that it is most unlikely that Macnaghten knew of the dismissal?

And I’ve never claimed that Macnaghten didn’t know about his dismissal. Why do you keep posting as if I’ve suggested that he must have known?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

If MM didn't know that Druitt was a teacher its unlikely that his comment about Druitt being sexually insane was about him and the boys at his school.

Good point.

In that case,what could Macnaghten have meant?

Very few people, except barristers, doctors, and police officers, realize that such a thing as sexual mania exists, and, in a murder case similar to the two mentioned above, it is a most difficult task for prosecuting counsel to make a jury fully understand that it supplies and accounts for the complete absence of any other motive for the crime.

It seems clear that the mention of barristers relates to criminal lawyers, which excludes Druitt.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

And I’ve never claimed that Macnaghten didn’t know about his dismissal. Why do you keep posting as if I’ve suggested that he must have known?

I suggest you re-read what you have written above.

You are saying that you never claimed that he did not know and you follow that up by complaining that according to me you suggested that he must have known.

Which of the two is it?


You wrote in # 189:

Perhaps they had just told Macnaghten that ‘he’d recently been sacked from his job,’ without mentioning that it was at a school?

I responded in # 210:

In that case, one could reasonably expect Macnaghten to have written that Druitt was said to have been a doctor who
had been struck off, rather than just a doctor of good family.

You replied in # 212:

Not if he hadn’t been told about the dismissal.


I responded to your comment, which assumed he had been dismissed, and then when I reply to that, you suggest that he was not dismissed.

That does not make sense.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I suggest you re-read what you have written above.

You are saying that you never claimed that he did not know and you follow that up by complaining that according to me you suggested that he must have known.

Which of the two is it?


You wrote in # 189:

Perhaps they had just told Macnaghten that ‘he’d recently been sacked from his job,’ without mentioning that it was at a school?

I responded in # 210:

In that case, one could reasonably expect Macnaghten to have written that Druitt was said to have been a doctor who
had been struck off, rather than just a doctor of good family.

You replied in # 212:

Not if he hadn’t been told about the dismissal.


I responded to your comment, which assumed he had been dismissed, and then when I reply to that, you suggest that he was not dismissed.

That does not make sense.

Typo.

I meant that I never claimed that he did know about the dismissal.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It seems clear that the mention of barristers relates to criminal lawyers, which excludes Druitt.

Why does it exclude Druitt?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Why does it exclude Druitt?

Because he was not a criminal lawyer.

Having responded to the first halves of my #210 and # 214, will you do me the courtesy of responding to the second halves of my #210 and # 214?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Typo.

I meant that I never claimed that he did know about the dismissal.

Then what is the argument about?

I have been arguing that Macnaghten did not know that Druitt was dismissed from the school.

If you do not wish to contest that, then fine, but that means that Macnaghten was poorly informed and a most unreliable source for information about Druitt.

If he did not know that Druitt was dismissed, then presumably he did not know about the inquest nor the suicide note which appears to refer to his dismissal.

In that case, what reliance can be placed on anything else Macnaghten wrote about Druitt?

[Doctored Whatsit]

Then what is the argument about?

I have been arguing that Macnaghten did not know that Druitt was dismissed from the school.

If you do not wish to contest that, then fine, but that means that Macnaghten was poorly informed and a most unreliable source for information about Druitt.

If he did not know that Druitt was dismissed, then presumably he did not know about the inquest nor the suicide note which appears to refer to his dismissal.

In that case, what reliance can be placed on anything else Macnaghten wrote about Druitt?

Mac only claimed to suspect Druitt because of private information. He did not allege, as far as I am aware, that the police had carried out a detailed investigation, and that he had just refreshed his memory from the reports when making his observations. What he actually knew, and whether he remembered it all correctly, is just supposition. We cannot know.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Because he was not a criminal lawyer.

Yes he was. In 1887 he defended Henry Young against a charge of murder.

Having responded to the first halves of my #210 and # 214, will you do me the courtesy of responding to the second halves of my #210 and # 214?

#210 - Not directly at you. It’s a point that I’ve often made, and totally stand by, that the subject Druitt raises far to much ‘high feeling,’ leading to attempts to dismiss him which veer into the ‘desperate.’ Many people feel a greater need to ‘dismiss’ Druitt than they do for almost all other suspects.

#214 - Re-phrase the question. Honestly I’m struggling to follow this.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Then what is the argument about?

I have been arguing that Macnaghten did not know that Druitt was dismissed from the school.

If you do not wish to contest that, then fine, but that means that Macnaghten was poorly informed and a most unreliable source for information about Druitt.

If he did not know that Druitt was dismissed, then presumably he did not know about the inquest nor the suicide note which appears to refer to his dismissal.

No. We can’t say that.

In that case, what reliance can be placed on anything else Macnaghten wrote about Druitt?

Because we have no reason for doubting it.

And I haven’t said that he did know (except for in that typo post - which I’ve explained) which is why I keep asking why you keep persisting with the point?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Mac only claimed to suspect Druitt because of private information. He did not allege, as far as I am aware, that the police had carried out a detailed investigation, and that he had just refreshed his memory from the reports when making his observations. What he actually knew, and whether he remembered it all correctly, is just supposition. We cannot know.

Bingo.

And yet strident efforts are made to ‘dismiss’ him.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Mac only claimed to suspect Druitt because of private information. He did not allege, as far as I am aware, that the police had carried out a detailed investigation, and that he had just refreshed his memory from the reports when making his observations. What he actually knew, and whether he remembered it all correctly, is just supposition. We cannot know.

As far as I can see, there was no police investigation of either Druitt or Kosminski.

Moreover, Macnaghten's allegation that Druitt was sexually insane is no more credible than his allegation that Kosminski had strong homocidal tendencies, which is contradicted by the evidence, or that Ostrog was a homicidal maniac, which is obviously untrue.

If Macnaghten had privileged information about the events leading up to Druitt's suicide, then he would surely have known about his dismissal and the allusion to it in the suicide note.

But it is evident that he did not know.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Simply because he used a random phrase ‘sexually insane?’ It’s another very trivial point. No even remotely important.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Btw, PI, any acknowledgment on the ‘criminal lawyer’ point?