Eliot Place in 1881 - the FULL listing

[aspallek]

Thanks, Chris, for uncovering this...more of your sterling work. The name Borwick rings a bell for me for some reason.

[John Savage]

Hi All,

Another name on Chris Scott's list struck a chord as being from a wealthy background

Charles Vane Tempest. This was the name of both the 6th and 7th. Marquess of Londonderrry, and the family I beleive, had some connection with the Vane Tempest coal mine in Seaham, Durham.

Rgds
John

[Chris Scott]

Elizabeth Sims (née Blundell)
Married in 1853 to John Frederick Sims
We find her listed under her maiden name in the 1851 census as follows:
123 St John Street, Clerkenwell
Head: Thomas C Blundell aged 51 - Rope maker and Mat maker employing 10 men
Wife: Elizabeth Blundell aged 53
Children:
Elizabeth aged 25
Thomas aged 23
Lucy A aged 21
William H aged 19
Servant:
Martha Roberts aged 19
All residents listed as born in Clerkenwell

The family were at the same address in 1841 and listed as follows:
Head: Thomas Charles Blundell aged 42 - Ropemaker
Wife: Elizabeth Blundell aged 45
Children:
Elizabeth aged 15
Thomas aged 14
Lucy Ann aged 12
Alfred aged 4

[Chris Scott]

Census entries under the same of SIMS in Clerkenwell

These divide into two types:
1) Those living in Clerkenwell
2) Those listed as being born in Clerkenwell

The totals by year for each type are as follows:
1: Living in Clerkenwell
1841 - 12
1851 - 15
1861 - 23
1871 - 18
1881 - 15
1891 - 12
1901 - 15
2: Born in Clerkenwell
1851 - 2
1861 - 21
1871 - 12
1881 - 18
1891 - 15
1901 - 28

[Johnr]

Good on you Chris,
You've come through again.
Don't know how we could discover if the Clerkenwell commonality might indicate some link between George R. and Matron Elizabeth Sims.
Nonetheless, this might be something for knowledgeable sleuths with local access to suburban London Wills or whatever,to bear in mind when next they are checking other matters.
Thanks again Chris, you do a champion job. JOHN RUFFELS.

[Chris Scott]

With regard to Elizabeth Sims, her husband's death is registered as follows:
1868 Quarter 4
Islington
John Frederick Sims aged 38

The marriage of John and Elizabeth was registered as follows:
1853 Quarter 2
Clerkenwell
John Frederick Sims married Elizabeth Blundell

What seems to be the right John Sims is listed in Islington as follows in 1841:
Crop Street, Islington
Head: Frederick Sims aged 30
Wife: Mary Sims aged 35
Children:
John aged 11
Also listed are:
Head: George Sims aged 30
Wife: Phoebe Sims aged 30

The only link I can see so far between George R Sims and Elizabeth Sims is a geographical one. Although George R Sims is listed as born in Kennington, three of his siblings - Louisa, Walter and Emily - are listed as born in Clerkenwell. It was also in Clerkenwell that Elizabeth Sims (née Blundell) was born and also there that she and John Frederick Sims were married.

[Johnr]

Thanks Chris,
Much obliged. I suppose stranger connections have been discovered on these pages over the years.
But I think it more likely we will find, as Robert has said, that Matron Sims is
probably related to Alister Sims of "Carry On.." fame.
JOHN RUFFELS.

[Chris Scott]

Hi John
I'm glad you found the updated list interesting
If there is any link between Elizabeth Sims and George R Sims, it would presumably be through her husband, John F Sims. He is listed as a pharmacist and specifically as a member of the Pharmaceutical Society. If I find any evidence of a link I'll let you know
Regards
Chris

[Johnr]

Well Done Once again Chris !

Hello All,
Thanks very much Chris for posting the missing half of the 9 Eliot Place Census details for 1881.
Well done. A good bit of back-sleuthing on your part.
As Byzantine has helpfully pointed out, ( thanks for those links B.),there appears to be a number of children from well-connected families represented amongst the pupils.
I wonder if the Earl of Shannon's family has any family yarns about Jack the Ripper?
When I saw the name " Elizabeth Sims, Matron ", I immediately thought of George R. Sims the Ripper story journalist who seemed to have an "in" with Scotland Yard.I wonder if we can check if there is any link?
JOHN RUFFELS.

[Byzantine]

Eliot Place in 1881
The Honourable Walter Boyle aged 12 born London
The Honourable Spencer Boyle aged 10 born London
The Honourable Algernon Boyle aged 9 born London

Those three have Peerage entries. They are respectively
*Walter (John Harry) Boyle (11 Mar 1869 - 24 Feb 1939). See: http://www.thepeerage.com/p7262.htm#i72616
*Edward (Spencer Harry) Boyle, later Captain of the Royal Navy (8 Oct 1870 - 8 Oct 1937). See:http://www.thepeerage.com/p7268.htm#i72679
*Sir Algernon (Douglas Edward Harry) Boyle, later Admiral of theRoyal Navy. (21 Oct 1871 - 13 Oct 1949). See: http://www.thepeerage.com/p7269.htm#i72688


All three were sons of Henry Bentinck Boyle, 5th Earl of Shannon and his second wife Julia Charlotte Cradock-Hartopp.

[Chris Scott]

Any info I found about people who were listed at 9 Eliot Place in 1881 I will post here (I had previously done this for the shorter list of pupils only)

Elizabeth Sims - would certainly have known MJD as she is listed as matron at Eliot Place in 1881 and 1891. By the time of the 1901 census she had moved to Stoke Newington and was listed as a boarder in the household of a printer compositor named Walter Brown. The address was 53 Winston Road, Stoke Newington and her details are listed as follows:
Boarder: Elizabeth Sims aged 75 born Clerkenwell - Living on own means

In 1871 she is listed as follows:
169 Hemingford Road, Islington
Head: Elizabeth Sims aged 45 born Clerkenwell - Chemist and druggist
Assistants:
Edward Skipper aged 21 - Pharmaceutical Chemist
Thomas B Melluish aged 19 - Chemist and druggist
Servant: Maria Burton aged 16

We learn the name of her husband from the 1861 census:
Shop, 8 Hemingford Road, Islington
Head: John F Sims aged 31 born Islington - Pharmaceutical Chemist, member of Pharmaceutical Society
Wife: Elizabeth Sims aged 35 born Clerkenwell
Assistant: James D Jones aged 21 born Ludlow - Chemist's assistant
Servant: Eliza Davis aged 21 born Breconshire

[Roma]

Thanks for the listing ! I didn't know that so many people lived with MJD, and that may enlighten us as to his dismissal.

[Chris Scott]

Eliot Place in 1881

The census listing for 9 Eliot Place, Valentine's school, in 1881 has been posted before as below:
Head: George Valentine aged 39 born Bombay - Schoolmaster B.A.
Mother: Louisa Valentine aged 66 born Nevis, West Indies
Schoolmasters:
Mark Francis James Mann aged 25 born Guernsey - Assistant schoolmaster B.A.
Montague John Druitt aged 23 born Wimborne - Assistant schoolmaster B.A.
Pupils:
Henry S Liesching aged 17 born Ceylon
Ernest Borwick aged 16 born Walthamstow
William Walker aged 16 born Rosario, Argentine Republic
John D Mennie aged 16 born Poonah, India
W Reginald Ellis aged 16 born Sheffield
Edward A Ugielli aged 15 born London
Henry F Mackern aged 15 born Buenos Ayres, Argentine Republic
William F Tyler aged 15 born Wootton, Somerset
Albert Budge aged 15 born British Guiana
Julius C Savory aged 15 born London
Nathaniel B Winter aged 14 born British Guiana, New Amsterdam
George H Mackern aged 14 born Limerick, Ireland
Tufnell B Southgate aged 14 born Lee, Kent
Arthur Bousfield aged 14 born Lee, Kent
Douglas Ugielli aged 14 born London

This is the list as it has been posted on the message boards before. However, some recent searches I have done have shown that this list is incomplete and I now realise how this has happened. The whole of Eliot Place in 1881 is part of the following district listing:
London / Lewisham / Lee / District 4
This whole district consists of 83 pages, and the above listing for Valentine's school is on page 5 of 83. The next page (6 of 83) starts at 13 Eliot Place so it has previously been assumed that the list above is complete for Valentine's establishment, but this is not the case. What has happened is that the pages have been missorted prior to scanning and the continuation for Valentine's school occurs on pages 1 and 2 of this district. These extra entries list more pupils and the full domestic staff. Here is the full additional listing below:
George W Sherlock aged 13 born British Guiana
George Horm aged 13 born Killeagh, Cork
Geo. W Stanley aged 13 born Cambridge
Reginald Weston aged 13 born Clapham
Mordaunt C Crowe aged 13 born Canada
Robert W Ledger aged 13 born Southwark
Leonard Borwick aged 13 born Walthamstow
John C W Stanley aged 13 born Longstone Hall, Cambridge
St John Wagstaffe aged 12 born Portsmouth
The Honourable Walter Boyle aged 12 born London
Archibald C Higginson aged 11 born Gibraltar
Charles Randell aged 11 born Bexley, Kent
Claud H Moxon aged 11 born Clapham
Archibald Borwick aged 11 born Walthamstow
Archibald D Tilleth aged 10 born Fakenham, Norfolk
The Honourable Spencer Boyle aged 10 born London
William Crowe aged 10 born The Curragh, Ireland
Walter L D Scott aged 10 born Selkirk
Charles Cabe aged 10 born Abbey Wood, Kent
Walter B Randell aged 10 born Bexley, Kent
Cardley Liesching aged 9 born Ceylon
Charles Vane Tempest aged 10 born Austria
The Honourable Algernon Boyle aged 9 born London
Staff:
Frances Curtis aged 49 born Danbury, Essex - Housekeeper
Katherine Lemon aged 23 born Clandon, Surrey - Cook
Elizabeth Rastell aged 23 born Weedon, Northampton - Housemaid
Pleasance Green aged 21 born Wilton, Norfolk - Housemaid
Sarah Alderton aged 18 born Woolwich - Kitchen maid
Emily Hetherington aged 18 born Fetcham, Surrey - Housemaid
Mary Plumb aged 18 born Burnham, Norfolk - Needlewoman
Thomas Plumb aged 21 born Burnham, Norfolk - Manservant
Thomas How aged 15 born Colchester - Manservant
Elizabeth Sims aged 55 born Clerkenwell - Matron

This now complete listing shows that the age range of pupils taught by Druitt ranged in age from 17 to as young as 9. If the mysterious cause of Druitt's dismissal was one of misconduct either with one of his charges or one of the domestic staff - both of which have been suggested - then this now complete listing may include the name - not that we are ever likely to know!

The way I came across this is that one member of the domestic staff, Elizabeth Sims, was still with Valentine in 1891. The listing for that year is as follows:
Staff at 9 Eliot Place in 1891

Listing:
Head: George Valentine aged 49 born Bombay - Schoolmaster
Pupil: William E Johnson aged 15 born Kampsee, India
Nephew: John M Valentine aged 13 born Lee, Kent - Pupil
Elizabeth Sims (Widow) aged 65 born Clerkenwell - Boy's matron
Sarah Booker aged 56 born Clapton - Housekeeper
Susan M Godfrey aged 34 born Frittenden, Kent - Housemaid
Emma Dains aged 19 born Margaretting, Essex
Frederick S Tebbutt aged 18 born Woolwich - Footman