Broadmoor Archives finally open

[Chris]

At the risk of upsetting Stewart, whom I greatly admire, may I say that the last thing I believe in the WM are the police reports.

What fatuous nonsense!

Whether you believe the police reports is neither here nor there. You said the police referred to the victims at best as "'rumoured', 'supposed' or 'most likely to have been' prostitutes". That's rubbish. The police referred to them as prostitutes without any qualification at all.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Ally,

Convince me why I should believe the official WM line and you will sway my opinion.

Until then . . .

Regards,

Simon

[Ally]

If you don't believe the police reports then why did you say the police hadn't identified them as prostitutes? I mean where exactly are you getting YOUR police information? Having personal conversations with dead bobbies?

Of course if you don't believe the written statements of the police, there's those death certificates....

Or don't you believe those either? Which basically means nothing will sway you from your opinion, not even evidence to the contrary...

[Simon Wood]

Hi Chris,

At the risk of upsetting Stewart, whom I greatly admire, may I say that the last thing I believe in the WM are the police reports.

Regards,

Simon

[Stewart P Evans]

Kelly

Hi Stewart,
Thanks for that.
To my list of definite maybes I shall add E.S. Johnson's "It is believed . . ."
Regards,
Simon

Kelly's death certificate

[Chris]

Simon

You wrote:
"At best they were all 'rumoured', 'supposed' or 'most likely to have been' prostitutes."

Can you not at least have the grace to acknowledge that was wrong, even if you are still determined to disbelieve the police statements?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Philip,

I didn't realise you were Scandinavian.

Thank you for your kind offer, but I already have the full skinny on Scandinavian surname endings from [funnily enough] Scandinavia.

The Gustifson surname may be perfectly feasible for a woman removed from Swedish cultural traditions, but where's our PROOF—our rock-solid, cast-iron PROOF—that Stride's bride was Elisabeth Gustafsdotter?

Regards,

Simon

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stewart,

Thanks for that.

To my list of definite maybes I shall add E.S. Johnson's "It is believed . . ."

Regards,

Simon

[Stewart P Evans]

Chapman

Not one of the C5 was identified by the police as 'a known prostitute'.
At best they were all 'rumoured', 'supposed' or 'most likely to have been' prostitutes.
Regards,
Simon

HO 144/221/A49301C f146

[George Hutchinson]

I've been noticing several posts about the surname discrepancy in relation to Liz Stride. Am I missing something or are there people here who genuinely do not understand the Scandanavian way of naming people?

If this is the case, I will be only too happy to inform you. There is NOTHING curious about this. If named in the proper way, it is impossible for a Scandanavian woman to have her surname ending in '-son' or '-sson' but when removed from the cultural tradition such a surname change is perfectly possible. If you wish for an explanation, you have only to ask - though if such explanation is going to be met with an ignorant denial, don't bother.

PHILIP

[Stewart P Evans]

Kelly

Not one of the C5 was identified by the police as 'a known prostitute'.
At best they were all 'rumoured', 'supposed' or 'most likely to have been' prostitutes.
Regards,
Simon

HO 144/221/A49301C f79



E S Johnson Home Office 9 Nov 1888

[Stewart P Evans]

Eddowes

Not one of the C5 was identified by the police as 'a known prostitute'.
At best they were all 'rumoured', 'supposed' or 'most likely to have been' prostitutes.
Regards,
Simon

HO 144/221/A49301C ff 166-167





Inspector J McWilliam City Police 27 Oct 1888

[Robert]

Simon, he's only supposing that they were murdered by the same hand. The supposing doesn't include the prostitution.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

My goodness, that flushed a covey of birds out of the thicket.

Swanson was unreliable when it came to accuracy in his reports.

I cannot find one newspaper report of Timothy Donovan describing Annie Chapman as a prostitute, but I did find this.

Freemans Journal and Daily Commercial, 10th September 1888—

"Chief Inspector West, who was soon called to the spot, states the woman's name is believed to be Annie Siffey, aged forty-five, and for the last few months she has been sleeping at a common lodg-house at 35 Dorset-street, Spitalfields, where she was seen at two o'clock this morning. Like Mary Ann Nicholls, who I supposed to have been murdered by the same hand, she was a prostitute, and was known in the neighbourhood of Brick-lane as "Dark Annie".

Senior policemen aren't paid to suppose.

John Kelly denied that Eddowes was a prostitute.

Elizabeth Gustafsdotter was registered as a prostitute in Sweden, but as John Stride married a woman whose maiden name was Gustifson we don't know 'for a fact' that they were one and the same woman.

Which leaves us with Barnett's contradictory utterances about MJK.

So on balance there's a case to suggest that the C5 weren't prostitutes.

Unless, of course, anyone knows better [for a fact].

Regards,

Simon

[Stewart P Evans]

Chapman

Not one of the C5 was identified by the police as 'a known prostitute'.
At best they were all 'rumoured', 'supposed' or 'most likely to have been' prostitutes.
Regards,
Simon

MEPO 3/140 f10



A/Superintendent J West H Division 8 Sept 1888