The Mental institution, didn't he go? (recovered)

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Kosminski MUST be highly rated because of his twice being named a suspect. I agree his 2 years liberty is a problem, and his death date, but I don't believe his psychological profile is a problem.

Here are eight reasons why Aaron Kosminski cannot be highly rated as a suspect in the Whitechapel murders, nor as the supposed suspect described by Macnaghten and Swanson.


(1) According to Macnaghten, Kosminski became insane owing to many years indulgence in solitary vices.

Does that seem like someone who was still 22 at the time of the first two murders?

For how many years could a 22-year-old have been known to be jerking off?

(2) According to Macnaghten, Kosminski was removed to a lunatic asylum about March 1889.

He was not permanently incarcerated until nearly two years later.

(3) According to Macnaghten, There were many circumstances connected with this man which made him a strong 'suspect'.

That means that the case against Kosminski was entirely circumstantial and he was not even a suspect.

Macnaghten, who had access to all relevant files, was unaware of any incriminating evidence or any identification evidence against Kosminski.

(4) According to Swanson, after Kosminski was identified at the Seaside Home, no other murder of this kind took place in London.

Swanson implied that the identification took place in late 1888 or early 1889, well before the Seaside Home opened.

The argument that he meant no more murders took place after July 1890 or February 1891 does not stand up because there would have been no point in noting the cessation of the series of murders after an identification that took place more than two years after the last murder in the series.

(5) According to Swanson, following the identification of Kosminski as the Whitechapel Murderer, On suspect's return to his brother's house in Whitechapel he was watched by police (City CID) by day & night.

That is impossible, because no-one who had been identified as the Whitechapel Murderer would have been allowed to go home.

There would have been no point in watching him day and night 27 months after the last murder in the series, which again means that Swanson was claiming that the identification took place at a time when the Seaside Home had not yet opened, which is impossible.

(6) Swanson claimed that Kosminski was placed under restraint: In a very short time the suspect with his hands tied behind his back ...

This is not credible because in 30 years of asylum notes, there is no record of Kosminski's ever having had to be placed under restraint or kept in isolation.

He was instead described as harmless and his committal order described him as not dangerous.

(7) Swanson's claim that Kosminski died soon after being incarcerated - i.e. 30 years before he actually died - suggests someone who was considerably older than Aaron Kosminski and someone who had been practising solitary vices for much longer than Kosminski could have.

(8) There is nothing in Kosminski's psychological profile that matches that of Macnaghten's or Swanson's Kosminski nor that of the Whitechapel Murderer.

There is no evidence that Kosminski was dangerous, none that he hated prostitutes, none that he ever associated with prostitutes - in spite of allegedly having been under CID surveillance - and none that he was anti-Semitic, which both the assailant of Stride and the writer of the Goulston Street Graffito evidently were.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Note that they have still not released the name of the suspect who committed suicide and Du Rose avers they were sure was the 'nudes-in-the-Thames' murderer or Jack the Stripper of the 1960s. (Yes, i know it's recently been indicated that Du Rose was probably wrong. But Scotland Yard has still never released the name).

There is nothing to release.

The man's name was Mungo Ireland, who Du Rose claimed had been on a shortlist of three suspects and was about to be arrested at the time he
committed suicide, but no-one has ever confirmed Du Rose's claims.

[empty]

Just a thought on the name David Cohen.

Was David actually a common name in Victorian London?

Of all the Jewish names I've read on this board, associated with the IWEC, synagogues etc, I'm yet to come across anyone named David.

So, if David Cohen was a 'John Doe' then would the authorities have chosen the name David, or would they have gone for a far more popular Jewish name?

Quite the opposite, David is the quintessential Jewish name. David and Goliath charts the rise of King David, upon which the Jewish nation was born. The Jewish story of the messiah is that he would be from the direct lineage of the House of David, as Christians state Jesus was. Truth is that many traditional "Western" names are from Jewish origins because of the importance of the Abrahamic religions. The fact that today David might be the name of a white van man CofE plumber is no reflection on the 1880s when church attending police officers were aware of the Old Testament and the significance of the name David to Jews. As significant as John, Peter, or Simon is to Christians.

[Bridewell]

David

Just a thought on the name David Cohen.

Was David actually a common name in Victorian London?

Of all the Jewish names I've read on this board, associated with the IWEC, synagogues etc, I'm yet to come across anyone named David.

So, if David Cohen was a 'John Doe' then would the authorities have chosen the name David, or would they have gone for a far more popular Jewish name?

Good question. If the authorities were Gentiles considering a likely name for a Jewish man, though, wouldn't David be one of the first names they would think of?

David meaning and name origin

David \d(a)-vid\ as a boy's name is pronounced DAY-vid. It is of Hebrew origin, and the meaning of David is "beloved". Biblical: one of the most remarkable personalities in the Scriptures. David was a shepherd, musician, poet, soldier, statesman, prophet, and king. He wrote about half of the Psalms and very likely composed music for them as well. He is the only David mentioned in the Bible; his name occurs there more than a thousand times.

Above taken from:

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/David

Regards, Bridewell.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Just a thought on the name David Cohen.

Was David actually a common name in Victorian London?

Of all the Jewish names I've read on this board, associated with the IWEC, synagogues etc, I'm yet to come across anyone named David.

So, if David Cohen was a 'John Doe' then would the authorities have chosen the name David, or would they have gone for a far more popular Jewish name?

[Bridewell]

In the meantime I'm looking for someone we can prove was STOPPED for some reason after Kelly was killed.

Or who left London perhaps?

Regards, Bridewell

[empty]

Your call of course, but Messrs Sugden, Rumbelow, Evans, Begg & Skinner might just have contributed something worth reading...not to mention Messrs Hutchinson, Scott, Clack and House (to name but a few others!)...your reasoning wasn't bad until then!

All the best

Dave

I have read MOST of those (and have been left unimpressed in most cases - sorry guys). My personal taste is I listen to Begg (always GREAT value), and Skinner is incomparable in research terms. Nevertheless, I'm not "open" to ANY theory. I maintain of all the theories out there, Fido's is - to me - the best/most likely. The murders stopped for a reason. Cohen is the best reason we're going to find out (I think, or certainly right now). If the true Ripper died, NO ONE is ever going to know. Kosminski is important historically. So is Druitt, but there is too much against him circumstantially. So I'm looking for someone who was stopped.

Annoyingly, Cohen could be disproved - but someone needs to do the work. But it does exist out there right now. Not forever, though.

My ideal dinner party would be Begg, Fido, Skinner, Anderson, Swanson, MacNaughton, Smith... I think it's time to sit them all down and let the dogs loose. If only...

In the meantime I'm looking for someone we can prove was STOPPED for some reason after Kelly was killed. Just my opinion. And I'm a nobody.

[Cogidubnus]

I still think Cohen is hugely attractive as a suspect and Mr Fido is THE most important contributor to the case IMHO.

Your call of course, but Messrs Sugden, Rumbelow, Evans, Begg & Skinner might just have contributed something worth reading...not to mention Messrs Hutchinson, Scott, Clack and House (to name but a few others!)...your reasoning wasn't bad until then!

All the best

Dave

[empty]

Levy was committed August 1890 and died just under a year later in July 1891 ...I do believe there's a pretty good case to consider him a suspect at least!

Dave

I do absolutely agree. Thing is, for me, Cohen is a very strong suspect (of those we know about) and whether Anderson and Swanson meant him or not, he is my top suspect circumstantially in the wake of evidence.

Kosminski MUST be highly rated because of his twice being named a suspect. I agree his 2 years liberty is a problem, and his death date, but I don't believe his psychological profile is a problem. If we take Swanson's marignalia as being wrong on 2 facts out of 4, why not wrong on the two which favour Cohen? Paranoid schizophrenia is the same as Sutcliffe, and all the stuff about being monitored and being in the care of his family fits Kosminski better according to what we know.

Levy is intriguing but, added to the same problems as Kosminski, AND not being named, puts him a far third for me. You may as well say there are lunatics who are probable but about whom we know nothing (or little) yet. That's not wrong, that's just where we are.

EDIT: If Swanson is right, he either got the suspect's name wrong, OR knew nothing about his fate. I personally find both equally hard to accept, both being pretty important to a man in the know. This is one area I don't accept Fido (sorry, Martin). I don't necessarily doubt Swanson's marginalia, but for me one is as at least improbable as the other, and therefore the door for Kosminski is still open. If Swanson can get either of those wrong (and according to Fido he must have done) then equally Swanson could have got the death date wrong. Were the death timescale not in question, the balance would tip in Kosminski's favour heavily. For me, that would be case closed. But that's just me. I still think Cohen is hugely attractive as a suspect and Mr Fido is THE most important contributor to the case IMHO.

[Cogidubnus]

I stand to be corrected, but I believe Levy also was at large for two years after Kelly's murder. His location fits those that were being monitored. For me, though, he is outside the top two - Kosminski has been twice named, Cohen more aptly fits the profile.

Levy was committed August 1890 and died just under a year later in July 1891 ...I do believe there's a pretty good case to consider him a suspect at least!

Dave

[TomTomKent]

I stand to be corrected, but I believe Levy also was at large for two years after Kelly's murder. His location fits those that were being monitored. For me, though, he is outside the top two - Kosminski has been twice named, Cohen more aptly fits the profile. Even if Swanson and Anderson really thought Kosminski WAS the suspect (and got his death date wrong?), Cohen, for me, still is the strongest candidate historically. A & S could have been wrong, but close nonetheless, and it was luck that ended the killing spree...

Again, I agree with the caveat of him being in the top two we know about. If the name is flawed and we are working on personal memory years after the fact we have to allow for there being other mistakes, which allow for there to be equally good fits we have yet to identify because of the falibility of the human mind.

[empty]

Fair point. Bare in mind that there are no doubt other jewish suspects for whom one or more of the statements rings true. Levy for example died not long after he was caged and seems to have been violent.

It could well be that one small factor like, for example, the location of the suspects arrest meaning the asylum was not in London but somewhere outside in Kent, could well mean there is an almost exact match that has elluded us all together. Cohen is one of the better fits for Swansons suspect, of those possibilities so far identified, but does that make him the Ripper?

We should be careful of the distinction.

I stand to be corrected, but I believe Levy also was at large for two years after Kelly's murder. His location fits those that were being monitored. For me, though, he is outside the top two - Kosminski has been twice named, Cohen more aptly fits the profile. Even if Swanson and Anderson really thought Kosminski WAS the suspect (and got his death date wrong?), Cohen, for me, still is the strongest candidate historically. A & S could have been wrong, but close nonetheless, and it was luck that ended the killing spree...

[TomTomKent]

Oh if only Kosminski and Cohen weren't always confused, we possibly would have had a solution! The Swanson marginalia has 4 details about the suspect - 2 of which ring true for Cohen and 2 for Kosminski. All of which are mysterious when you consider how important both Swanson and the case was. Kosminski seems to have been incarcerated by his family. Cohen was "caught". The mystery's solution eludes us still...

Fair point. Bare in mind that there are no doubt other jewish suspects for whom one or more of the statements rings true. Levy for example died not long after he was caged and seems to have been violent.

It could well be that one small factor like, for example, the location of the suspects arrest meaning the asylum was not in London but somewhere outside in Kent, could well mean there is an almost exact match that has elluded us all together. Cohen is one of the better fits for Swansons suspect, of those possibilities so far identified, but does that make him the Ripper?

We should be careful of the distinction.

[empty]

Though I now wonder how the raging and raving lunatic from the brothel went from ranting and incoherent squawker who was one of many in a raid on a brothel to definate Ripper suspect. There seems to me to be a page missing there and I would love to know what anybody else thinks fills the gap.

As I said, his mania seems to have come on AFTER the raid. There are many reports from many contemporaries involved in the case that the suspect was being watched - and he knew it - if you follow Cohen, then they weren't sure entirely of his identity and Cohen was a "John Doe" name. If you follow Kosminski, we must assume he was watched for nearly 2 years and was aware of it, which is why the killings stopped.

According to Anderson and Swanson, whichever suspect it was was identified by the City Police's PC/witness, meaning there were already strong suspicions against the suspect, whoever it was. In Cohen's case, his mania was revealed by arrest. In Kosminski's case he was, by then, an 'imbecile' (his mind blown because he was prevented from killing/being constantly watched?).

In Cohen's case he was identified but the witness refused to swear, so Cohen was locked up as mentally ill.

In Kosminski's case, he was identified (probably in 1888/9) but released to his brother's house (this seems to definitely reference Kosminski) and watched and soon after sent to an asylum (by his family).

Swanson said the suspect died soon after. Kosminski did not (was not dead at time of Swanson's writing). Cohen did.

Swanson's marginalia, if believed/trusted, fits for both, but at the same time netiher accurately. Incredibly frustrating.

[empty]

Ah, I wasn't aware of the raid and hadn't read the 1988 book in uite some time. My mtake. For some reason I thought his rage was reported by family, but I am probably confusing him with Kosminski, Kosmanski, or some other possible suspect.

Oh if only Kosminski and Cohen weren't always confused, we possibly would have had a solution! The Swanson marginalia has 4 details about the suspect - 2 of which ring true for Cohen and 2 for Kosminski. All of which are mysterious when you consider how important both Swanson and the case was. Kosminski seems to have been incarcerated by his family. Cohen was "caught". The mystery's solution eludes us still...