Does anything rule Bury out?

[Fisherman]

As long as Bury could feasibly be placed in Whitechapel during the murders (which he can), then he has to be considered the prime suspect. With any other suspect there has to be a presumption that they were capable not only of murder but also mutilation. Not so with Bury.

I think you will find that some 95+ per cent of those who have been recorded as murderers had no previous murder conviction when they were caught.
Introducing the idea that to be able to kill, you need to have killed before does not impress me greatly.

You will also fond that some 95+ per cent of the serial killers on record never killed any relative of theirs, wife, sibling, father, mother etc.

Put that together and you will realize that Bury is not a very useful bid.

Placing him in Whitechapel during the murders is something you cannot do - that is simply reckless to claim. You can place him in Whitechapel on occasion at the approcimate murder period. But you cannot place him in Whitechapel at the murder occasions per se. "Feasibly" or not. Why would he go to Whitechapel at 3.30 in the ornings if he was not the killer? What errand would he logically have?

Propositions like that are somehow always found out, and the proposer looks kind of silly when it happens...

[John Wheat]

There is also the good possibility that Bury knew and was comfortable with the Whitechapel area, on top of the benefit that it was full of "easy" victims in the form of prostitutes. He may have known some of the alleys and crevices of the area better than elsewhere, with the advantage of being removed a mile or so from his home.

I think that's highly likely Single O Seven.

[Single-O-Seven]

There is also the good possibility that Bury knew and was comfortable with the Whitechapel area, on top of the benefit that it was full of "easy" victims in the form of prostitutes. He may have known some of the alleys and crevices of the area better than elsewhere, with the advantage of being removed a mile or so from his home.

[John Wheat]

Hi John,

Yes, obviously Whitechapel victims would be an ideal area to target. But, as a commuter killer, why exclusively Whitechapel? What was there particularly to artract him to one small district to the exclusion of all other suitable localities? After all, Sutcliffe, another commuter killer, targeted victims throughout West Yorkshire and further afield.

To John

I personally doubt there would be another place adjacent to Bow with such a high concentration of prostitutes and pubs and as many backstreets.

Cheers John

[John G]

Why not Whitechapel. It was far enough away for Bury to feel comfortable he wouldn't be suspected. But near enough he could get to easily by horse and cart. Plus it was full of prostitute's. I think its also worth noting most of those prostitute's were of Bury's class.

Hi John,

Yes, obviously Whitechapel victims would be an ideal area to target. But, as a commuter killer, why exclusively Whitechapel? What was there particularly to artract him to one small district to the exclusion of all other suitable localities? After all, Sutcliffe, another commuter killer, targeted victims throughout West Yorkshire and further afield.

[John Wheat]

As long as Bury could feasibly be placed in Whitechapel during the murders (which he can), then he has to be considered the prime suspect. With any other suspect there has to be a presumption that they were capable not only of murder but also mutilation. Not so with Bury.

To Harry

Your preaching to the converted. If you ask me had Bury mutilated Ellen to a much greater extent. Bury would have been hung as the Ripper. Which is exactly why Ellen wasn't mutilated more. I also think had Ellen's throat been cut then Bury being hung as the Ripper would be a distinct possibility. In my opinion Bury should be viewed as either the World's first copy cat killer or Jack the Ripper.

[John Wheat]

Why not Whitechapel. It was far enough away for Bury to feel comfortable he wouldn't be suspected. But near enough he could get to easily by horse and cart. Plus it was full of prostitute's. I think its also worth noting most of those prostitute's were of Bury's class.

[John G]

Although, as I've stated, I consider Bury to be an extremely good candidate, one of things that troubles me is why did he focus exclusively on Whitechapel? I mean, he was clearly mobile, because of the pony and cart, so presumably could have committed murders throughout the East End of London. And wouldn't this make sense after police numbers were substantially increased in the Whitechapel Division? And, of course, he wasn't even living on the Whitechapel district.

I suppose, therefore, that is he main question would be: why Whitechapel?

[Harry D]

As long as Bury could feasibly be placed in Whitechapel during the murders (which he can), then he has to be considered the prime suspect. With any other suspect there has to be a presumption that they were capable not only of murder but also mutilation. Not so with Bury.

[John Wheat]

To Fisherman

Interesting response. Not one I was expecting.

Cheers John

[Fisherman]

The lack of a cut throat and the extent of the mutilations seem to be sticking points for some as regards Bury as the Ripper. However hypothetically speaking what would Bury have had to do to Ellen Bury to be regarded as the Ripper? Cut Ellen's throat? Mutilated Ellen like Mary Jane Kelly?

He would have to be found with one of the Ripper victims, in the act of killing her.
Others could and did mutilate. MacKenzie was mutilated some time after Bury was hanged in April of 1889.

This answer of mine relates to your question what Bury would have been needed to do to be regarded as the Ripper. If the question you wanted to ask was instead what he needed to do to be regarded as a Ripper suspect, he already is (right or wrong). If the question was instead what he needed to do to be regarded as the prime suspect, he would need to be tied to one or more of the Ripper murder spots before that would happen.

[John Wheat]

The lack of a cut throat and the extent of the mutilations seem to be sticking points for some as regards Bury as the Ripper. However hypothetically speaking what would Bury have had to do to Ellen Bury to be regarded as the Ripper? Cut Ellen's throat? Mutilated Ellen like Mary Jane Kelly?

[Elamarna]

Montie might well have been the Ripper, although I see nothing to connect him to the case other than the Macnaghten memo. However, looking at the circumstances of his death, it would seem that it wasn't the guilt of being the Ripper that caused him to punch out early. More likely it was the demanding social pressures that weighed heavily on a man who came from a family with a history of mental illness. And as such, Macnaghten loses one of his cornerstones for suspecting Druitt in the first place.

Harry

agree with you completely there.

it is much more likely that his mental state, lose of job, family issues (his mother) and family history of mental illness, drove him to commit suicide, rather than the fact he had committed another murder.
It is however possible that this mental state, he may have been in, could have been responsible, if he was the Ripper, for him committing the murders in the first place.

I feel that the main cornerstone for MM's view of Montie was the "private information" what ever that may have been.

regards

Steve

[Elamarna]

To Steve

I must apologise you are right in one of your earlier posts you have given reason to suspect Kosminski. Although I don't give the contemporary sources as much weight as you obviously do. They are riddled with inaccuracies.

Cheers John

Hi John

Thank you for replying
Yes there are many of those, however we will have to disagree on what effect those have on the tendency to name 1 suspect.
The problem as I see it is that we do not know why they chose to name him, there must have been some reason, we can only assume it was lost over the years.


yours

Steve

[John Wheat]

To Steve

I must apologise you are right in one of your earlier posts you have given reason to suspect Kosminski. Although I don't give the contemporary sources as much weight as you obviously do. They are riddled with inaccuracies.

Cheers John