Does anything rule Bury out?

[Harry D]

I'm really conflicted on Bury. Out of all the named suspects, I'd consider him the best of a bad bunch. Here we have a violent drunk who didn't live far from the murder sites, who randomly upped sticks and went to the opposite end of the country soon after MJK's death, and then was later found guilty of murdering his wife in a 'Ripper-like' fashion. But I also agree with Errata that his behaviour is downright bizarre. The stone-cold killer who murdered women without a sound and melted into the shadows is the same dunce who handed himself into the police with some cockamamie story about suicide when he could've been half-way to America before anyone found out. My only idea is that maybe Ellen was his only connection to something resembling a normal life and once he killed her he just completely imploded?

[John G]

I'm really conflicted on Bury. Out of all the named suspects, I'd consider him the best of a bad bunch. Here we have a violent drunk who didn't live far from the murder sites, who randomly upped sticks and went to the opposite end of the country soon after MJK's death, and then was later found guilty of murdering his wife in a 'Ripper-like' fashion. But I also agree with Errata that his behaviour is downright bizarre. The stone-cold killer who murdered women without a sound and melted into the shadows is the same dunce who handed himself into the police with some cockamamie story about suicide when he could've been half-way to America before anyone found out. My only idea is that maybe Ellen was his only connection to something resembling a normal life and once he killed her he just completely imploded?

Hello Harry,

Perhaps he was so arrogant he assumed he would get away with it. Maybe he was hoping that Dr Bond would become involved. After all, he concluded that Rose Mylett had strangled herself!

And Peter Sutcliffe hardly impresses me as a criminal mastermind but he was lucky to get away without being caught for several years.

[Harry D]

Hello Harry,

Perhaps he was so arrogant he assumed he would get away with it. Maybe he was hoping that Dr Bond would become involved. After all, he concluded that Rose Mylett had strangled herself!

And Peter Sutcliffe hardly impresses me as a criminal mastermind but he was lucky to get away without being caught for several years.

Hello, John.

You don't need to be a criminal mastermind to hop on the first boat out of there.

You do, however, have to be a complete moron to come up with the kind of story that Bury gave to the police. 'My wife got drunk and strangled herself, so I mutilated her and bundled her in a box... but I didn't kill her I swear!'

[John Wheat]

To Harry

My only idea is that maybe Ellen was his only connection to something resembling a normal life and once he killed her he just completely imploded?

I believe Bury had lost it big time mentally by the time of Ellen's murder.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

To John

Perhaps he was so arrogant he assumed he would get away with it. Maybe he was hoping that Dr Bond would become involved. After all, he concluded that Rose Mylett had strangled herself!

And Peter Sutcliffe hardly impresses me as a criminal mastermind but he was lucky to get away without being caught for several years.

I absolutely agree with what you are saying. Bury was certainly very arrogant. And when you compare Sutcliffe to Bury as the Ripper then you are comparing like for like in various terms.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

To Harry

You don't need to be a criminal mastermind to hop on the first boat out of there.

You do, however, have to be a complete moron to come up with the kind of story that Bury gave to the police. 'My wife got drunk and strangled herself, so I mutilated her and bundled her in a box... but I didn't kill her I swear!'

Bury's behaviour is odd wether he's the Ripper or not. I suspect Bury feared a national manhunt with him as the Ripper if he had just hopped on the first boat out of town and this coupled with as I have previously stated Bury probably having lost it big time mentally at this point he came up with the **** and bull story he went to the police with.

Cheers John

[Harry D]

Bury's behaviour is odd wether he's the Ripper or not. I suspect Bury feared a national manhunt with him as the Ripper if he had just hopped on the first boat out of town and this coupled with as I have previously stated Bury probably having lost it big time mentally at this point he came up with the **** and bull story he went to the police with.

Cheers John

Hello, John W.

The 'manhunt' argument doesn't wash. Fleeing the country would've kept his neck out of the hangman's noose for however long. Walking into the police station with that **** n' bull story was signing his own death warrant.

[John Wheat]

To Harry

Hello, John W.

The 'manhunt' argument doesn't wash. Fleeing the country would've kept his neck out of the hangman's noose for however long. Walking into the police station with that **** n' bull story was signing his own death warrant.

I disagree the manhunt argument could be applicable wether Bury was the Ripper or not. And again wether Bury's the Ripper or not why the **** and bull story?

Cheers John

[Harry D]

And again wether Bury's the Ripper or not why the **** and bull story?

Because it would imply that he's not a stone-cold killer but a drunken brute who panicked once his violent temper finally spilled over.

[John Wheat]

To Harry

Because it would imply that he's not a stone-cold killer but a drunken brute who panicked once his violent temper finally spilled over.

I would hardly call sitting around for days playing cards on a trunk with a body in it panicking.

Cheers John

[Harry D]

I would hardly call sitting around for days playing cards on a trunk with a body in it panicking.

Well if going to the police was the result of careful deliberation then he really was a grade A idiot.

[Wyatt Earp]

You don't need to be a criminal mastermind to hop on the first boat out of there.

Harry, what’s interesting is that Ellen’s sister Margaret testified at Bury’s trial that Bury was talking about going overseas around the time that he sold his horse and cart—going overseas would definitely have been something on his radar. No one here should kid themselves that Bury was too stupid to realize he could have made a run for it. I’d wager that going on “a long journey” was the first thing Bury thought about doing. So why didn’t he do it? He told Lt. Parr that he feared being apprehended as the Ripper, and so I think this prospect of an enormous manhunt—with capture leading to almost certain execution—must indeed have been what held him back.

Look at what happened with Frank Tumblety. He took your advice, Harry. He adopted a false name, he got on a boat, and he made a run for it. And when he arrived in New York, someone was waiting for him. I think you’re underestimating the ability of the police to track people down, where Bury seems to have been clued into that.

With respect to the story that Bury took to the police, perhaps his thinking went something like this:

1. Maybe the police will buy my story, and I won’t be prosecuted.
2. If they don’t buy my story and I am prosecuted, maybe the jury won’t convict me.
3. If the jury does convict me, maybe I won’t get the death penalty.

It’s quite possible that Bury calculated that going to the police with that story gave him better odds of saving his neck.

What was cracked was not the story of self-strangulation itself—apparently there had been other cases of self-strangulation, and the jury did seem to take the medical testimony for self-strangulation seriously—what was cracked was going to the police with that story given the surrounding circumstances. He’s stuffed Ellen’s body into a trunk, he’s mutilated her genital area, there’s a foot of intestine popping out of her abdomen, and the knife he’s used on her is still sitting on the window sill with blood and flesh and hair on it. Of course most people are going to conclude, “This guy is a maniac, and this must be a case of murder.”

Perhaps he was so arrogant he assumed he would get away with it.

I think you might be right, John. If Bury was a smooth-talking psychopath, he could have been very confident in his ability to fool other people.

[John G]

Hello Wyatt

And what should be remembered is that Bury very nearly did get away with it. During the trial Dr Lennox, for the defence, stated that in his view this was a case of suicide rather than homicide, I.e self-strangulation. Dr Kinnear agreed that suicide by strangulation was possible but improbable. However, he was newly qualified, a graduate of less than 6 months. And, of course, Dr Bond concluded that the Rose Mylett case was one of suicide by strangulation.

Incredibly, after finding Bury guilty the jury recommended mercy on the grounds of the "conflicting medical evidence". This resulted in much laughter throughout the court and the clearly perplexed judge, Lord Young, said that he wasn't prepared to accept such a verdict and sent the jury away to reconsider.

[John Wheat]

To Harry

Well if going to the police was the result of careful deliberation then he really was a grade A idiot.

I don't expect Bury going to the police was the result of careful deliberation. As I have previously stated I suspect Bury had lost it big time mentally at this point.

Cheers John

[Harry D]

Thanks, gents.

I'm not arguing that Bury would've been home and dry if he made good his escape, but surely that had to be preferable to turning himself into the police in the vain hope they would swallow his ludicrous story.

Also, you believe he was the Ripper despite the fact he handed himself in, so theoretically why wouldn't the police be of the same opinion?

Another mark against him is that while William Bury was six feet under, Alice McKenzie was busy getting murdered in a far more 'Ripper-like' fashion than Ellen Bury. Therefore why is Bury a better suspect than whomever killed old 'Clay Pipe' Alice?