Is Bury the best suspect we have?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Getting rubbished? Now you know how Ike feels.

No one has created an obviously forged diary about Bury as far as I’m aware.

[Duran duren]

Well said HS

[Herlock Sholmes]

We don’t know who Jack the Ripper was. Some people are massively biased in favour of their own suspect; some claim to deduce more than is actually possible; some add opinions that they have received from others; some just post to disrupt and annoy. Al, that we can do is look at the suspects and say what we know whilst accepting that we can’t know enough.

Bury was living locally.
Bury was a violent man who was known to use a knife.
Bury was a drinker.
Bury had a traumatic childhood experience.
Bury had a troubled childhood.
Bury got into crime at a young age.
Bury actually murdered a woman (yes, she was his wife but she was still a woman)
Bury mutilated her abdomen.
Bury left London not long after the Kelly murder


How many suspects can we name that tick so many boxes. If we seek to dismiss Bury from any list of suspects then every single named suspect has to be eliminated also. Every one. This does not make Bury the killer but it must at least raise an alarm and make him a person of interest. It’s incredible and deeply embarrassing for the subject as a whole that ‘suspects’ like Cross (who is simply a joke promoted by the gullible) gets a fan club. He ticks none of the boxes as a killer except that he was local, and while we know that the gullibles think that his mere presence is a sign of guilt, hopefully most of us can see past that childish nonsense.

No matter how much it annoys people, and I don’t know why it should, Bury remains high up on the list of named suspects. On a box ticking exercise he’s top two.

[Lombro2]

I'd suggest that Bury isn't favoured by many because he was an ordinary loser type. As opposed to a top hated toff.

Getting rubbished? Now you know how Ike feels.

[GBinOz]

I don't think the hangman's view about whether Bury was the Ripper has much value. That the police of the time didn't seem to think that he was the Ripper means more to me than what the hangman thought.

The police at the time were under pressure to solve these murders and sent detectives to interrogate Bury. It would have been to their advantage to have been able to announce that the case had been solved, but they didn't. We can't know the details of their interrogation, but perhaps they found that Bury could not relate vital details of the murders, so it was determined that he was merely a fantasist. Bury finally admitted to murdering his wife, so with the gallows as his future why would he have not admitted to being the Ripper? Perhaps because he couldn't provide those vital details.

There was a reported conversation between Bury and the hangman, but this may have been apocryphal, as if the hangman had been persuaded by this alleged conversation he would surely have mentioned it in his book. But he didn't.

Much is made of the timing of his departure from London, but this was also the time that his wife's inheritance money had run out. Additionally he had a crate custom made for his journey north, almost like he had plans for its future use in the disposal of a wife who had out served her purpose. A despicable person by any measure, but too stupid to have been Jack.

[John Wheat]

If Bury is truly the best suspect they can offer, then why does his case collapse under the weight of its own emptiness? Why is it that, after all these years, he commands no serious following, no credible scholarly support, no compelling evidence that can withstand even modest scrutiny? Perhaps it's because clinging to Bury isn't about solving the mystery, it's about refusing to let go of a bad theory.



The Baron

This is nonsense and from the man that claimed Bury couldn't be the Ripper because he had a beard in Ellen Bury's murder trial. Bury murdered his wife in a similar way to the C5. What other suspect can you say that about? Very few of the suspects are even violent murderers there's Kelly but not many others. I'd suggest that Bury isn't favoured by many because he was an ordinary loser type. As opposed to a top hated toff.

[The Baron]

If Bury is truly the best suspect they can offer, then why does his case collapse under the weight of its own emptiness? Why is it that, after all these years, he commands no serious following, no credible scholarly support, no compelling evidence that can withstand even modest scrutiny? Perhaps it's because clinging to Bury isn't about solving the mystery, it's about refusing to let go of a bad theory.



The Baron

[John Wheat]

yup agree Lewis. imho hes the least weak suspect.

I don't agree with this line of thought. I'm of the opinion that the investigation into the Ripper was as thorough as they could do at the time. And because of this Jack is probably someone who is named. The magic suspect is not going to appear from thin air. Also post mortem mutilation is extremely rare it's not as though many killers do it. I know some may mention post mortem mutilation by The Torso Killer however I would say that this was aping Jack. Some may say so was Bury however for Bury to match the psych profile of the FBI as he does and to be an average Joe loser type and to perform post mortem mutilation, for his wife to have been a prostitute when he met her, the murders starting after his marriage and then ceasing after he left London. Too many coincidences mount up and it for me atleast becomes likely that Bury was the Ripper.

[Abby Normal]

Thanks George. I could be wrong, but I thought that the reason that the jury asked that Bury not be hanged was that they were against hanging, even if he was guilty. If they had reasonable doubts about his guilt, they should have found him not guilty, regardless of the punishment.

I don't think the hangman's view about whether Bury was the Ripper has much value. That the police of the time didn't seem to think that he was the Ripper means more to me than what the hangman thought. I'll agree that it's more likely that Bury wasn't the Ripper than that he was. I think Abby and I have pretty much the same position on this: Bury isn't an especially strong suspect, but all other named suspects in the case are even weaker.

yup agree Lewis. imho hes the least weak suspect.

[Lewis C]

Hi Lewis,

Good baseball analogy.

I don't believe that Bury was innocent of his wife's murder, but he thought he would be cleared and the jury had sufficient doubt as to ask the judge for a lenient sentence. Had he reported her death straight away, without mutilation or concealment, he may well have been found innocent due to the conflicting medical opinions. I was playing devil's advocate on John's reply to Kattrup regarding police interest - "The difference between Bury and those suspects is that Bury is a proven murderer."

IMO Bury was a drunken little no hoper that used his wife for her inheritance and then disposed of her when the money ran out. I don't think he was the Ripper. When the hangman wrote his memoirs there was not a word about Bury...unusual had he considered him to be the most famous of serial killers. JMO.

Thanks George. I could be wrong, but I thought that the reason that the jury asked that Bury not be hanged was that they were against hanging, even if he was guilty. If they had reasonable doubts about his guilt, they should have found him not guilty, regardless of the punishment.

I don't think the hangman's view about whether Bury was the Ripper has much value. That the police of the time didn't seem to think that he was the Ripper means more to me than what the hangman thought. I'll agree that it's more likely that Bury wasn't the Ripper than that he was. I think Abby and I have pretty much the same position on this: Bury isn't an especially strong suspect, but all other named suspects in the case are even weaker.

[GBinOz]

Hi George,

I agree with John and with the gist of what RD said, and I'll add that Bury's statement that he mutilated his wife so that people wouldn't think he was the Ripper is rather strange. A bit like if I said that I put on a baseball uniform so that people wouldn't think I was a baseball player.

Hi Lewis,

Good baseball analogy.

I don't believe that Bury was innocent of his wife's murder, but he thought he would be cleared and the jury had sufficient doubt as to ask the judge for a lenient sentence. Had he reported her death straight away, without mutilation or concealment, he may well have been found innocent due to the conflicting medical opinions. I was playing devil's advocate on John's reply to Kattrup regarding police interest - "The difference between Bury and those suspects is that Bury is a proven murderer."

IMO Bury was a drunken little no hoper that used his wife for her inheritance and then disposed of her when the money ran out. I don't think he was the Ripper. When the hangman wrote his memoirs there was not a word about Bury...unusual had he considered him to be the most famous of serial killers. JMO.

[Lombro2]

Didn’t he mean to say that he cut her up to stuff her in a box so no one would find her and think he’s the Ripper?

That’s far from madness. But Jack could also have only been trying to look mad.

Or shall we say Continental like me?

[Lewis C]

Really?....The mock retrial found him innocent and the jury at the time had doubts due to the medical evidence. How would your theory survive if Bury was innocent of his wife's murder, and his wife meet her death accidentally, as he claimed, and he mutilated her and stuffed her in a box to avoid being accused of being the Ripper, as he claimed. Could he have been someone craving the notoriety while endeavouring to avoid the consequence?

Hi George,

I agree with John and with the gist of what RD said, and I'll add that Bury's statement that he mutilated his wife so that people wouldn't think he was the Ripper is rather strange. A bit like if I said that I put on a baseball uniform so that people wouldn't think I was a baseball player.

[John Wheat]

Really?....The mock retrial found him innocent and the jury at the time had doubts due to the medical evidence. How would your theory survive if Bury was innocent of his wife's murder, and his wife meet her death accidentally, as he claimed, and he mutilated her and stuffed her in a box to avoid being accused of being the Ripper, as he claimed. Could he have been someone craving the notoriety while endeavouring to avoid the consequence?

The chances of Ellen Bury having committed suicide are zero. Whatever the result of a mock trial. To say that Ellen Bury committed suicide is disrespectful to Ellen Bury as The Rookie Detective has commented.

[The Rookie Detective]

Really?....The mock retrial found him innocent and the jury at the time had doubts due to the medical evidence. How would your theory survive if Bury was innocent of his wife's murder, and his wife meet her death accidentally, as he claimed, and he mutilated her and stuffed her in a box to avoid being accused of being the Ripper, as he claimed. Could he have been someone craving the notoriety while endeavouring to avoid the consequence?

The mock retrial was the equivalent of a group of school kids going to Wembley to recreate the 1966 world cup final, to then claim that England should have lost by 4 goals, based on the bias English weather conditions, poor officiating and the density of the football being in favour of the home team.

It's okay to understand that Bury murdered his wife.


There's no shame in that


He strangled her, and then after she died...he got curious with a little post-mortem play with his knife.

And just to make sure she was dead and concealed, he chose to fold her dead body and squeeze her into a box...that he then used as a chair.


The ultimate display of male dominance and power over his butchered female prey, whom he had tormented ever since the day she fell into his trap by having met him in the first place.


The guy hanged and he deserved what he got in spades.


His poor wife is never really considered as relevant, but she should be commended for her strength in managing to contain him for as long as she did.

If he was the Ripper, she likely saved many women from being murdered.


As a side note; if one was to watch the documentary that dealt with the mock retrial; it's clear that all the medical experts know that Bury was guilty, but their lack of committal through some bizarre fear of some kind of woke rebuttal, end up conceding that they're not sure.

But that concession is made only after a war of attrition that is based upon favouring Bury's innocence.


the documentary was made specifically to push for Bury being cleared, just for the sake of making the documentary in the first place.


the production is self-serving and clearly geared towards a bias and incorrect interpretation of the evidence.


It's as if the producers were only willing to spend money on the mock trial, if the trial found Bury innocent; so that the documentary stood out as groundbreaking.


Nobody would have talked about it if they found Bury guilty again.

It's also important to note that the mock trial had no legal or official clout whatsoever.


It was essentially a waste of time.


Even the "judge" at the end, told the jury something along the lines of them only having 5 minutes to decide, because they were going home soon and needed to clear the building.
He rushed through the "verdict" and it all ended as a bit of farcical television in the end.


Note also that the so called "prosecution" who were trying to say that Bury was guilty, seemed to be led by someone who clearly had no social presence and who spoke with no confidence or conviction; like they were camera shy. Whereas, the defence side were led by someone with a clear and confident manner. That also played a part in the jury's 5 minutes to decide a verdict farce.



But anyway; to say that Bury was innocent, is to give a great disservice to his poor wife, who no doubt suffered terribly in her final moments.


Bury got what he had coming to him, and even his hangman James Berry didn't give Bury the satisfaction or time to put on a show.


A quick, clean and instantaneous end.