Originally posted by Ms Diddles
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
William Bury: Jack the Ripper
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Thanks Ms D. I’ve added Beadle to my (very long) to read list. I once saw Beadle give a talk at a Cloak & Dagger club meeting a million years ago but he wasn’t talking about Bury at the time. I seem to remember it was Kelly’s TOD. Good talk though.
Apparently Ellen was employed by James Martin (who was a notorious brothel owner).
She was listed as a "domestic servant" there, but her landlady commented on the fact that she was sleeping all day and out working at night.
She ultimately confessed to her landlady that she had been employed by James Martin as a prostitute all the time she had been residing with her landlady, which included a brief period after her marriage to Bury.
It's not clear what MacPherson's source for this is, but likely it's from witness statements at Bury's trial.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post
I'll look out my MacPherson book when I get a moment.
My memory is completely fallible, but I'm confident that it was pretty certain that she was on the game prior to marriage.
I recall thinking that it was strange that someone in that profession would receive a substantial inheritance, implying that there was money somewhere in the family.
I want to say it was her mother who left her the money, but I may have misremembered that.
It's been a while since I read about Bury so I need to brush up too.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
Hi Herlock
Every bit of information on Ellen Bury suggests she was a prostitute when Bury met her. I haven't got either Beadle's or McPherson's books with me right now but both writers say this and I'm sure they back it up with sources.
Cheers John
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View PostAs I haven’t re-read any Bury books lately could someone confirm that Ellen had actually worked as a prostitute? I’d never rely on Wiki for anything of course but I did just notice that it only said ‘probably a prostitute’ on there. Is there confirmation of this?
My memory is completely fallible, but I'm confident that it was pretty certain that she was on the game prior to marriage.
I recall thinking that it was strange that someone in that profession would receive a substantial inheritance, implying that there was money somewhere in the family.
I want to say it was her mother who left her the money, but I may have misremembered that.
It's been a while since I read about Bury so I need to brush up too.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View PostAs I haven’t re-read any Bury books lately could someone confirm that Ellen had actually worked as a prostitute? I’d never rely on Wiki for anything of course but I did just notice that it only said ‘probably a prostitute’ on there. Is there confirmation of this?
Every bit of information on Ellen Bury suggests she was a prostitute when Bury met her. I haven't got either Beadle's or McPherson's books with me right now but both writers say this and I'm sure they back it up with sources.
Cheers John
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
To be honest Fogelpa there isn’t a great list of potential candidates for the witness. It’s tended to be Lawende or Schwartz. Someone else might be able to say if someone else has been suggested though. I can’t recall of the top of my head.
Welcome to Casebook by the way.
Cheers, George
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View PostThe problem with Lawende as the witness is that he was later wheeled out to look at Sadler and later Grainger. Why would they have done that if he’d already identified the ripper?
Cheers, GeorgeLast edited by GBinOz; 08-13-2021, 12:15 PM.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by GBinOz View Post
You're taking the bait my friend. Ignore the bait for a while and the fisher will lose interest.
Cheers, George
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Because Baron knows that, of the named suspects, I prefer Druitt. Baron has a proven obsession with me (as illustrated again here George, where on a thread about Bury he shows up and makes his ‘miles ahead of Druitt’ comment.) Obviously if Mackenzie was proven to have been a victim then Druitt would have to be dismissed as a suspect. So of course he claims it’s 100% certain that Mackenzie was a ripper victim. I’ve always admitted the possibility that he might have been but that it’s a point that’s been debated without conclusion for years. It’s par for the course with him George.
Cheers, George
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
hey Herl
because the id at the time of koz wasnt as solid as anderson made it out to be later. theres a passage in sugden where he quotes a news article that connects the witness to an "eviscerated" victim. eddows was, stride wasnt so the witness according to the article is Lawende.
imho the koz witness was more than likely lawende.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View PostThe problem with Lawende as the witness is that he was later wheeled out to look at Sadler and later Grainger. Why would they have done that if he’d already identified the ripper?
because the id at the time of koz wasnt as solid as anderson made it out to be later. theres a passage in sugden where he quotes a news article that connects the witness to an "eviscerated" victim. eddows was, stride wasnt so the witness according to the article is Lawende.
imho the koz witness was more than likely lawende.
Leave a comment:
-
As I haven’t re-read any Bury books lately could someone confirm that Ellen had actually worked as a prostitute? I’d never rely on Wiki for anything of course but I did just notice that it only said ‘probably a prostitute’ on there. Is there confirmation of this?
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
Hi Herlock
While I favour Bury as the Ripper I must remark that Druitt is still what I would term a sensible suspect. Eg suspected at the time. Committed suicide shortly after Mary Kelly was murdered. Kosminski less so in my opinion but again still what I would term a sensible suspect. Although the man that ate food from the gutter seems a long way from Jack the Ripper. In my opinion it's nice to debate suspects such as Bury, Druitt, Kosminski etc rather than debate witnesses who have been turned into suspects or persons who can't be placed in London in 1888.
Cheers John
Yes Bury is certainly a suspect worth discussing and researching. All have pros and cons of course. Personally I’ve always said that if I was forced to put my last penny on it I’d hedge that the ripper was yet to be named. Some Pawnbroker’s assistant from Bethnal Green or Labourer from Stepney. I don’t think that we’ll ever know to everyone’s satisfaction. Unless something turns up….like a diary.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Never named by Anderson. Mentioned only once, in pencil, years later by Swanson. Not a single existing record of any identification. The identity of the witness never mentioned. And facts stated incorrectly by both.
Isn’t it strange that you make a huge thing about MacNaghten describing Druitt as a 41 year old Doctor and yet you conveniently ignore Anderson’s mistakes.
You should take a step back and view things more objectively. All suspects have their positives and negatives. Why don’t you simply do that as most of us try to instead of deciding first. Your thinking is clearly “Herlock favours Druitt…..I dislike Herlock….therefore I’ll desperately try anything to try and dismiss Druitt.”
Thankfully most posters on here take a more open-minded, sensible, less personal approach to the subject.
While I favour Bury as the Ripper I must remark that Druitt is still what I would term a sensible suspect. Eg suspected at the time. Committed suicide shortly after Mary Kelly was murdered. Kosminski less so in my opinion but again still what I would term a sensible suspect. Although the man that ate food from the gutter seems a long way from Jack the Ripper. In my opinion it's nice to debate suspects such as Bury, Druitt, Kosminski etc rather than debate witnesses who have been turned into suspects or persons who can't be placed in London in 1888.
Cheers John
Leave a comment:
Leave a comment: