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Martin's Statement to Abberline

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  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by c.d. View Post
    Such a threat could have been what led Bury to murder her, as Bury might have known that she either suspected him of being or was aware that he was the Whitechapel murderer.

    Hello Wyatt,

    I can't speak for his wife but if she knew or even just suspected he was the Ripper why in the hell did she remain in the same house as him? I would have gotten out of there as quickly as possible.

    c.d.
    hi cd
    many wives, girfreinds etc. stay with their sig others when they know they are killers, for many reasons-fear being one of them, dependency, love etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wyatt Earp
    replied
    Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

    Does happen though. Mrs Reg Christie for one, and look how she ended up.
    One could argue that Ellen Bury herself was a person of questionable character. She had inherited shares worth 300 from an aunt and yet she was continuing to work as a prostitute for James Martin and Kate Spooner. This was not a woman who was being forced into prostitution because of financial necessity.

    One other point of interest in Martin’s statement is that he does not say that Bury arrived in London in Oct. 1887, he only says that Bury entered his employ in Oct. 1887. We don’t know exactly when Bury arrived in London. It’s possible that he spent some time living in the Whitechapel area before being hired by Martin.

    Leave a comment:


  • Al Bundy's Eyes
    replied
    Originally posted by c.d. View Post
    [I]

    I can't speak for his wife but if she knew or even just suspected he was the Ripper why in the hell did she remain in the same house as him? I would have gotten out of there as quickly as possible.

    c.d.
    Does happen though. Mrs Reg Christie for one, and look how she ended up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wyatt Earp
    replied
    Originally posted by c.d. View Post
    Such a threat could have been what led Bury to murder her, as Bury might have known that she either suspected him of being or was aware that he was the Whitechapel murderer.

    Hello Wyatt,

    I can't speak for his wife but if she knew or even just suspected he was the Ripper why in the hell did she remain in the same house as him? I would have gotten out of there as quickly as possible.

    c.d.
    Love is blind?

    He gave her vd and was beating her up, but she stayed with him anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • c.d.
    replied
    Such a threat could have been what led Bury to murder her, as Bury might have known that she either suspected him of being or was aware that he was the Whitechapel murderer.

    Hello Wyatt,

    I can't speak for his wife but if she knew or even just suspected he was the Ripper why in the hell did she remain in the same house as him? I would have gotten out of there as quickly as possible.

    c.d.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wyatt Earp
    started a topic Martin's Statement to Abberline

    Martin's Statement to Abberline

    This is the statement that Frederick Abberline took from Bury’s former employer, James Martin, four days after Bury was arrested for his wife’s murder. There are some marginalia in the left column of the statement, and I have reproduced these through the use of italics.

    “Statement of James Martin ‘General Dealer,’ 80 Quickett Street, Bromley-by-Bow:—

    ‘In October 1887 William Hy Bury entered my service as a hawker of sawdust and remained with me until the latter end of March last, he appropriated some of my money, and I discharged him [In Oct. 87 P. entered my service as a hawker of sawdust + I discharged him for dishonesty in March last.] . Whilst in my employ he made the acquaintance of Ellen Elliott, who was my servant at 80 Quickett Street, Arnold Rd. Bromley [Deceased was my servant. She left me last April + I then heard she was married to P.]. She left my service the beginning of April last, and a few weeks afterwards I heard that she was married to Bury. She was with me about 18 months. On one occasion before they were married he assaulted her at my house, and I have seen him assault her on two or three occasions since their marriage [Have seen him assault her in my house before they were married + since.]. Bury told me he had the venereal disease very bad in May last, and that he had given it to his wife. She also told my wife in my presence—about this time—that she had the bad disorder. Bury was drunk three or four times a week whilst he was in my employ [P. was addicted to drink.], and since he obtained the money from his wife he has seldom been sober—that is since he married her. Elliott told me on one occasion that she had given birth to a child in some workhouse and I know that she was no better than a prostitute, and she occasionally fetched men home and they slept with her at my house. Bury was aware of the fact that she used to bring men home to sleep with her because the latter part of the time he was in my employ he slept in the same house. On two occasions since their marriage I met her in the street with her face disfigured, and she told me her husband had assaulted her [Have met her twice since married with bruises on her face wh. she sd her husband had made.]. On one of the occasions she said it was because she threatened to lock him up for spending all her money [He has simply drunk with her money, since his marriage + done nothing else.]. I know that since he married her he has done nothing but frequent public-houses spending her money.’

    James Martin

    The above statement was taken by me 14.2.89
    F. Abberline Inspr.”

    The statement that Martin gave to Abberline would have reflected the questions that Abberline asked him. At Bury’s trial, Martin would testify that on two occasions Bury, in a drunken state, assaulted his wife in Whitechapel. William Bury lived in Bromley-by-Bow. If Abberline was investigating Bury for the Ripper murders in the week following Bury’s arrest, we would have expected him to ask Martin if he knew anything about Bury spending time in Whitechapel. How often did he go into the area? Which days of the week did he go into the area? What was he doing there? Why was he getting drunk there when he could have been getting drunk in pubs closer to where he lived? Do you know if he was involved with any prostitutes there? Etcetera. The word “Whitechapel,” however, appears nowhere in the statement that Abberline took from Martin.

    This indicates one of two things: either Scotland Yard was—amazingly—not investigating Bury for the Ripper murders in the week following Bury’s arrest, despite what it knew about the extraordinary murder that had been committed in Dundee, or Abberline did ask Martin about some of these things and for some reason Abberline chose not to include Martin’s information about Bury and Whitechapel in this statement.

    A few other points of interest in the statement:

    Note the “clever” way in which Martin tries to cover up the fact that he was operating a brothel.

    Also note the reference to Ellen Bury apparently threatening to report William Bury to the police in the context of an argument over money. One of the unknowns with Bury is whether or not the murder of his wife was planned (in his confession letter Bury claimed that it was not). Since Ellen had previously threatened to report Bury to the police, she could plausibly have made a similar threat on the night she was murdered. Such a threat could have been what led Bury to murder her, as Bury might have known that she either suspected him of being or was aware that he was the Whitechapel murderer.

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