Suspect Witnesses?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

I don't see why we need to find a situation for Fanny being at her door almost the whole time when there's another report that Fanny was at her door for 10 minutes, and that report fits better with the rest of the evidence.

That report would have Fanny at her door 5 minutes either side of 12:45, witnessing Goldstein in that period. Neither witness claimed to see a woman standing in the gateway, let alone an incident involving 4 people.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Except that the only report written in the first person and from Fanny herself, she does say that she was at her door for almost the whole time.

The 10 minute claim was written in a syntex that clearly didn't come from Fanny herself.

In other words, Fanny never said only 10 minutes.

We know that the time period between Smith's last presence on Berner St and a few minutes before 1am is substantially longer than 10 minutes. At least that needs to be acknowledged by anyone wanting to replace a witness quote with a report that contains no quotes and no names.

The only way that 10 minutes could possibly work is to suppose Diemschitz actually arrived no later than 12:55, and then build a timeline anchored around that. How this will fit with the notion of another man coming along to commit the murder after BS departs, is something I'm intrigued to see.

[Doctored Whatsit]

What do we know? Fanny came to the door sometime after PC Smith walked by, and was back indoors before Louis D went past. Just before she went indoors she saw Goldstein walk by. Stride entered the club yard on her own or with JtR some time in between PC Smith and Louis D, and Fanny didn't see this, so she seems to have been at the door rather less time than originally suggested. Unfortunately, we only have newspaper reports and not her police statement.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

There is an irony in Schwartz believers preferring the anonymous 10-minute report to the "I was standing at the door of my house nearly the whole time between half past twelve and one o'clock this morning" quote, that being the flexibility the quote affords to those wanting to build coherent timelines, as opposed to the rigidity of the other report. With the anonymous report, you're stuck trying to bridge a point immediately after Smith - who gave a time of 12:35 - with another point a few minutes before the 1am time given by Diemschitz, and you've got about 10 minutes to play with.

In contrast, those who correctly stick with the witness quote are mostly free to pick and choose when Mortimer is observing the street. The critical point here is that Mortimer can be placed away from her door when victim and culprit enter the gates yet be at her door just a minute or two either side of that point. Surely that scenario is preferrable.

[FrankO]

In contrast, those who correctly stick with the witness quote are mostly free to pick and choose when Mortimer is observing the street. The critical point here is that Mortimer can be placed away from her door when victim and culprit enter the gates yet be at her door just a minute or two either side of that point. Surely that scenario is preferrable.

Not quite, Andrew. Mortimer doesn't mention seeing Charles Letchford arrive, doesn't see Lave or Eagle, doesn't see Stride & Parcelman, doesn't see PC Smith, doesn't see James Brown and doesn't see Mr. BS, Schwartz, Stride again & Pipeman. The only persons she mentions seeing are a couple and Leon Goldstein, of whom, of course, the couple never came forward as far as we know. I wouldn't say the article naming Mortimer is preferrable, because then we'd have to believe that all those she missed lied or were mistaken as to their timing. Or, of course, that she had gone in each and every time that someone passed or was standing in a spot that was visible from her doorstep.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Not quite, Andrew. Mortimer doesn't mention seeing Charles Letchford arrive, doesn't see Lave or Eagle, doesn't see Stride & Parcelman, doesn't see PC Smith, doesn't see James Brown and doesn't see Mr. BS, Schwartz, Stride again & Pipeman. The only persons she mentions seeing are a couple and Leon Goldstein, of whom, of course, the couple never came forward as far as we know. I wouldn't say the article naming Mortimer is preferrable, because then we'd have to believe that all those she missed lied or were mistaken as to their timing. Or, of course, that she had gone in each and every time that someone passed or was standing in a spot that was visible from her doorstep.

Or ...

... I did not notice anything unusual.

The fact remains that "nearly the whole time" affords flexibility. Those who prefer the continuous 10-minute period could at least answer the most obvious question; did the murder occur before or after this period?

[The Rookie Detective]

There is an irony in Schwartz believers preferring the anonymous 10-minute report to the "I was standing at the door of my house nearly the whole time between half past twelve and one o'clock this morning" quote, that being the flexibility the quote affords to those wanting to build coherent timelines, as opposed to the rigidity of the other report. With the anonymous report, you're stuck trying to bridge a point immediately after Smith - who gave a time of 12:35 - with another point a few minutes before the 1am time given by Diemschitz, and you've got about 10 minutes to play with.

In contrast, those who correctly stick with the witness quote are mostly free to pick and choose when Mortimer is observing the street. The critical point here is that Mortimer can be placed away from her door when victim and culprit enter the gates yet be at her door just a minute or two either side of that point. Surely that scenario is preferrable.

I agree, excellent post.

I think the crux of what Mortimer was saying was...

"Well I was at my door being nosy for most of that time (12.30am-1am) and never saw anyone go in and out of the gateway, so I'm not sure how the killer or victim could have gone into the yard, because I would have seen them."

But it's not what she saw that's paericularly relevant, it's what she didn't see that counts.

If we trust Eagle, then Stride can only have walked into the yard after he had gone.

So that has to be after 12.40am.

So when PC Smith sees her circa 12.35am, we can determine that Stride had to have been standing in view of Mortimer's door between 12.35am - 12.40am

Which means Mortimer can't have been observing the street between that time period.

Therefore the earliest she must have came to her door would be no earlier than 12.40am

Her perception of her saying "most of the time" would mean that Mortimer must have been at her door for at least 10 minutes. That factors in her being mistaken and exaggerating, but crucially it means she was still telling the truth.

For anyone to claim "most of the time" of a 30 minute time period, it would mean 10 minutes at the very least because nobody would perceive less than 10 minutes out of 30 being "most of the time."

Of course, if she was there for between 12 to 15 minutes, she could have simply perceived the time she thought she spent at her door incorrectly, and then an added drop of exaggeration from her part may have bolstered the time she thought she was at her door.

So let's say that she mistaken, but believed she was correct (I.e. not lying) and she was only at her door for 10 to 12 minutes.

That has to be after 12.40am, because of Eagle, Smith, Lave, Parcelman, and Stride... 3 of whom we know went into the yard.

That places Mortimer at her door at 12.40am at the very earliest.

That's 20 minutes before 1am

And she needs 10 minutes, more likely 12 minutes to keep her "most of the time" quote as a genuine mistaken interpretation that retains its realism.

So we then know that Goldstein had to have passed through Berner St between 12.40am to 1am.

So the question is, what 10 to 12 minute time period out of the 20 minutes available, can Mortimer be at her door?

Well it can't be at any point when the following are present...

Bs man, Schwarz or Pipeman

Now we know that Mortimer never saw Stride, meaning Stride must have walked into the yard between Eagle walking into the yard, and Mortimer being at her door.

Which means that when she came to her door, Stride must have been in the yard already.

That places Stride in the correct location for when she's assaulted.

But Mortimer doesn't see it...and doesn't HEAR it either.

That shout of "Lipski!" only heard by the enigmatic Schwartz.

So, we need to allocate 10 to 12 minutes for Mortimer to be at her door, and yet not during the time from Bs man passing her door, to the point when Schwartz has ran off.

We also need to factor in the couple on the corner at 12.50am (according to Brown)

The assault couldn't have happened at 12.50am, because the couple didn't see or hear anything and neither did Brown.

Unless of course this couple seen by Brown was actually Stride and her attacker.

If that's the case however, then how did Stride get from that corner when she was seen by Brown, to the yard where she was assaulted?

It can only mean that the assault occurred before Stirde was seen on the corner by Brown

But then why didn't Mortimer see the couple move to and/or from the corner and into the yard IF Stride was seen by Brown?

If Brown saw Stride, then why didn't Mortimer when Stride made her way into the yard where she was later murdered?

It seems that Mortimer's account supports the idea that the couple seen by Brown wasn't Stride at all, and that Brown was genuinely mistaken.

If Brown didn't see Stride, then it supports the idea that after Eagle went into the yard, that Stride entered the yard from 12.40am...and then never left.

So what about the killer?

Well, the assault witnessed by Schwartz again supports the idea that Brown didn't see Stride at all, and instead saw the couple who later spoke to Mortimer.

This is because it cuts out the fact that Stride would need to go from being assaulted, to walk around the corner, and then be seen by Brown, before Stridw then walking back to the yard again to be murdered, and all without being seen by Mortimer.

But what about Schwartz?

Well, Brown, the couple on the corner, and Mortimer never saw or heard the assault, or saw Bs Man, Schwartz or Pipeman.

So we are back to when could Mortimer be at her door?

Well we know she saw Goldstein

But Goldstein never witnessed the assault, and would have walked directly past or straight into the couple on the corner, as he walked "hurriedly" around the corner.

So, how do we have Brown seeing a couple on the corner, a couple then speaking with Mortimer, and Mortimer seeing Goldstein...and yet none of those 5 people seeing or hearing the assault?

Remembering that all the above had to have occurred AFTER Eagle (and Lave) have passed through the yard.

We know that the couple on the corner weren't there when Brown passed the junction circa 12.45am, because he only seems to have seen them after he left the Chandlers shop closer to 12.50am.


And throughout all the above...how and when did the killer come and go into and out of the yard without being seen by anyone at all? Where did the killer escape to?

Could the killer have had in the shadows as the cart entered the yard, and then the killer joined the group in a faux attempt to raise the alarm? If so, then we can be fairly confident that the killer was a club member who just blended in to then make his escape.

This is unlikely however, as the murder weapon would have needed to be concealed.

It would then suggest that the killer fled straight after the murder.

So where did he go, and why wasn't he seen or heard?

Well because of Schwartz, Mortimer, Brown, Goldstein, and the couple on the corner, we have to work out which direction is more likely...

If the killer headed NORTH from the yard, then Mortimer couldn't have been at her door and Goldstein didn't see him walk past him either.

If he left and headed SOUTH, then it had to have been after the couple had left, Brown had passed and Goldstein had gone around the corner.

But regardless of which direction, the killer couldn't have left the yard when Mortimer was at her door.

So again, when we look at the 20 minute time frame, and then factor in the 10 to 12 minutes that Mortimer was at her door, it only leaves 8 minutes to fit in the Schwartz account, and the moment the killer left the yard.

We know that Mortimer didn't see or hear Schwartz, Bs man, or the assault circa 12.45am.

But because we know that Brown passed the junction circa 12.45am, then we know for certain that the assault couldn't have occurred at the same time Brown passed the junction to go to the Chandlers shop.

And because we know that the Brown and Schwartz account couldn't have happened at the same time, then we know that at least one of them (Brown or Schwartz) was at least 90 seconds wrong with their timings.

So if a close spoke to Mortimer and Brown saw a couple, then its likely that Stride wasn't seen by Brown and was already in the yard, and that then has her in the correct location to then be assaulted.

But the chronology of events is crucial here.

Mortimer needs 10 to 12 minutes at her door, 10 at the very least.

But if the Schwartz timing is correct, then Mortimer had to have come to her door AFTER the assault took place.

That means 12.46am at the very earliest.

So that then places Mortimer at her door between 12.46am to 12.56am, or more likely 12.46am to 12.58am on order to cover the 12 minutes as being "most of the time".

This means Goldstein passes AFTER the assault

And means that Brown must have been either in the shop at the time of the assault at 12.45am, or he had just missed it and arrived at the Chandler's shop just AFTER the assault took place.

It then means that the couple seen by Brown also arrived at the corner AFTER the assault.

In other words, if Schwartz's timing of 12.45am is correct, then the assault occurred when nobody else was around.

But if Brown was correct in his timings, then the assault witnessed by Schwartz has to be at a time when Mortimer is not at her door, and not when Brown is either on his way to the shop, or when he leaves to head home and sees the couple on the corner.

That means that the assault could only have occurred BEFORE 12.45am when Brown arrived, or AFTER 12.50am when Brown left to go home.

That could then place the assault between 12.41am to 12.44am, before Mortimer gets to her door by 12.49am at the very latest, and before Brown gets to the shop and before the couple seen by Brown arrive on the corner.

This could then mean that Brown DID see Stride AFTER the assault and Pipeman was standing with her.

But because of Mortimer's minimum 10 minute vigil, Stride and the man seen by Brown would STILL need to walk around the corner and walk into the yard without being seen by Mortimer.

Mortimer essentially rules out Brown seeing Stride.

It would seem rather unlikely for Stirde to have gone to the yard after being seen by PC Smith, then been assaulted by Schwartz, then walked around the corner to be seen by Brown, then gone back to the yard to be murdered, and all without being seen by Mortimer.

It's more logical that once she went into the yard, she never left it.

And if that's the case then she could have only been assaulted by BS man when...Mortimer wasn't at her door, when Brown wasn't on the way to the shop, or on his way back from the shop, or when the couple seen by Brown were at the corner.

It also means that the killer had to have left the yard at a time when Mortimer wasn't there, when Brown wasn't coming or going, or (to a lesser extent) when the man couple were there.

So, did BS man throw her down and then cut her throat?

That would mean that the killer fled at the end of the assault, and before Mortimer was at her door, and before the couple arrived on the corner, and before Brown arrived at the scene.

That leaves a kill time of between 12.41am to 12.44am

Eagle has gone
Lave has gone
Brown hasn't yet arrived
The couple haven't arrived on the corner.
Mortimer hasn't arrived at her door yet.
The assault occurring between 12.41am to 12.44am
Meaning that when Mortimer got to her door, Stride was already bleeding out.
When Brown arrived at the Chandlers shop, Stride was already bleeding out.
When the couple seen by Brown arrived on the corner, Stride was already bleeding out.
When Goldstein passed the club, Stride was already bleeding out.
Schwartz saw Bs man and Pipeman, one or both of whom were responsible for the murder.

That all seems rather neat.


Of course, if we stick to an assault time of 12.45am, then we need to push Brown's timings back. We can't bring Brown's timings forward, because then we need to explain why the couple seen by Brown didn't witness the assault, and why Mortimer hasn't had 10 minutes at her door.

The only time the assault could have occurred was 12.41am - 12.44am

In other words, before anyone and everyone else arrives on the scene.

Once Mortimer is at her door and the couple seen by Brown are at the corner, the assault couldn't have occurred, unless we move the assault to AFTER Mortimer goes back inside.

But this doesn't make sense, because the couple told Mortimer that they were standing on the corner both BEFORE and AFTER the discovery of the body.

That's another way of saying that once the couple who spoke to Mortimer had arrived on the corner, they stayed there until after the alarm was raised.

That means the assault needed to have happened BEFORE they got there.

That again supports the idea that the assault must have occurred BEFORE 12.45am.

The only window of time that fits for the assault is 12.41am to 12.44am

But of course IF the assault never happened, then after Pc Smith sees Stride at 12.35am, she stands talking, and then after Eagle goes back into the yard, she goes into the yard with her killer, who then quickly cuts her throat and then leaves.

But we need to factor in what happened to Parcelman from 12.35am to 12.45am

Was he the killer?

Well let's imagine that he was.

He must have been aware that Pc Smith saw him, so its unlikely he would then cut her throat less than 10 minutes later, because he would then be prime suspect number 1.

And why would the Schwartz account be made up in the first place?

Well...If the killer was a Jewish club member, then would hiring Schwartz to give an account of a gentile seen assaulting the victim and an anti-semiitic shout thrown in to seal the deal, be a perfect way to deflect attention away from a Jewish having been the killer?

It was Parcelman who was initially considered as the prime suspect based on PC Smith's sighting; that is despite the domestic assault account already been known about in the press from the day after the murder.


Bs man is there to give Parcelman an alibi.

The last person to have been seen with Stride was Parcelman.

Of course, it could be Brown who last saw Stride, but that then doesn't explain the couple who were at the corner in Fairclough St, who had spoken to Mortimer afterwards. The chances of 2 couples standing on the same corner at the same time is rather unlikely.

So we either have a scenario whereby Schwartz witnessed the assault and likely murderer between 12.41am - 12.44am, or a Jewish being the killer and the Schwartz account fabricated to get Parcelman off the hook.

And of course, if Parcelman was also Lave, then that makes things even more interesting.

The Jew who was arguably on the run and seeking temporary refuge in the club.

If Schwartz did witness an assault, and then BS Man WASNT the killer, then it really only leaves Pipeman as the killer, unless there was time for Pipeman to leave, Bs Man to leave, and another person to go into the yard, murder Stride, and then leave BEFORE Mortimer gets to her door no later than 12.46am -12.48am at the very latest.

It would strongly suggest that if Bs Man wasnt the killer, and Pipeman wasn't either, that the killer had to have been someone who came from the club or yard and therefore not seen by Mortimer by the time she gets to her door.

So to summarise...

If the assault occurred...
The assault took place after Eagle and Lave have left
The assault occurring between 12.41am to 12.44am
Brown arrives at the Chandlers shop after the assault
The couple seen by Brown arrive after the assault
Brown misidentifies Stride
Mortimer arrives later at her door after the assault and stays at her door for up to 12 minutes.
Bs man and/or Pipeman was the killer
Packman is less likely to have been the killer, unless he comes back out the club after the assault.
The murder is less likely to have been committed by the Ripper


if the assault didn't occur...
Then the murder occurred sometime after Eagle and Lave have left and gone into the club, to the time Mortimer gets to her door (kill time between 12.41am - 12.48am) OR...
Mortimer is at her door at 12.42am as the assault didn't happen and then she stays up until 12.54am with Goldstein having passed by before the couple arrive on the corner.
The killer has been standing in the yard with Stride since (12.41am) just after Eagle has left and just before Mortimer has come to her door.
He suddenly kills her and leaves the yard at 12.55am, just AFTER Mortimer has gone back inside (she just misses him)
Goldstein may have seen the killer before he struck.
If the killer was a Jew, (not necessarily a club member) he wouldn't be concerned with spending time with Stride in the yard.
In this scenario the killer is a Jew, who is later seen by Lawrende moments before he kills Eddowes.
This version is more likely the Ripper, who likely spent some time with each of his victims BEFORE he suddenly struck.

Both versions are viable IMO

Schwartz's account pretty much rules out the killer of Stride having been either a Jew or the Ripper.

And when Lawrende saw Eddowes (allegedly) and his fellow Jew made a comment about " not liking that sort " (obviously paraphrasing here) I believe he wasn't referring to Eddowes being a prostitute, but rather that he recognised the man standing with Eddowes as one of those radical Jews who did nothing but cause trouble (in his eyes)
The various Jewish factions really didn't like each other after all.

It would make sense if a radicalist Jew was seen and recognised as standing with Eddowes, and around an hour before another woman had been murdered outside a radical Jewish club.

The Jewish killer link between the slaying of Stride and Eddowes is there for all to see.

It's just the inclusion of the enigmatic and theatrical looking Schwartz that perhaps serves to derail that by him allegedly having witnessed a drunken gentile brassenly attacking Stride and having the balls to shout "LIPSKI!" directly outside a Jewish club.

If only Schwartz knew that his running as far as the train line bridge would take him nowhere near where he claimed to have been.

At least we can find more about him and verify his claims.


Oh, hold on...


awkward

[FrankO]

Or ...

... I did not notice anything unusual.

The fact remains that "nearly the whole time" affords flexibility. Those who prefer the continuous 10-minute period could at least answer the most obvious question; did the murder occur before or after this period?

Hm, that doesn't cut it for me, Andrew - a bit too easy. I'm not saying she wasn't quoted as saying that, because she was, but according to the article she also said that the only man that had passed in the street was a man with a bag and that she'd seen nobody enter the gateway. If she'd seen Eagle, then she should have seen him passing down the street as well, and entering the yard, no less. If she'd seen Lechtford, she would also have seen him passing along the street, too. And I wouldn't say that a couple that could well have been Stride & Parcelman would count as 'anything unusual', considering the circumstances.

[The Rookie Detective]

Post 562 is a long one, sorry!

I got carried away.

But well worth a read i hope.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The prediction I made in #546 has been vindicated.

Most of those 'legitimate' answers will avoid coming to terms with what is evident in the Star report - Schwartz is expecting his wife to move out during his absence, and he is out on the street after midnight, attempting to ascertain if her moving has been successful. How fascinating that this is occurring on Berner St. Where is his wife?

And I’ll add that Wick is correct.

I really think you are trying to create a mystery where none exists.

The fact that Schwartz is late getting back is neither here nor there. People are sometimes late. We could speculate 100 reasons and it still might have been something else.

“It seems that he had gone out for the day, and his wife had expected to move, during his absence, from their lodgings in Berner Street to others in Backchurch Lane. When he came homewards about a quarter before one he first walked down Berner Street to see if his wife had moved.”

So…Schwartz has gone out during the days for reasons unknown to us. While he’s out his wife is moving their belongings from their lodgings in Berner Street to their new lodgings in Backchurch Row. While he’s in Berner Street, on his way to his ‘old’ lodgings he sees the incident. Where is his wife? At their new lodgings presumably.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It’s one of the great mysteries of Ripperology. Why do people see such a mystery on Berner Street? This is what happened…

Schwartz walked along Berner Street with BS Man up ahead. The incident occurred, Schwartz crossed the road, Pipeman appeared, BS man yelled Lipski, Pipeman and Schwartz left the street.

[The Rookie Detective]

It’s one of the great mysteries of Ripperology. Why do people see such a mystery on Berner Street? This is what happened…

Schwartz walked along Berner Street with BS Man up ahead. The incident occurred, Schwartz crossed the road, Pipeman appeared, BS man yelled Lipski, Pipeman and Schwartz left the street.

Or the greatest mystery is how the entire story relies on Schwartz alone.

It's statistically more likely that the entire account given by Schwartz never even happened.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

If we trust Eagle, then Stride can only have walked into the yard after he had gone.

So that has to be after 12.40am.

So when PC Smith sees her circa 12.35am, we can determine that Stride had to have been standing in view of Mortimer's door between 12.35am - 12.40am

Which means Mortimer can't have been observing the street between that time period.

Therefore the earliest she must have came to her door would be no earlier than 12.40am

Please be cognizant of the fact that Smith told the coroner that his beat took 25 to 30 minutes, and there was nothing in his testimony to suggest that his last round before getting to the yard was outside of regulation. Therefore, placing Diemschitz arrival time at 1am pushes Smith several minutes past that time. That has to be the case, unless it is supposed the police search took zero seconds. If we start at 1:07:30 and work backwards, an exact regulation beat takes us back to 12:40.

Now what occurs between 12:40 and 12:45, when Mortimer gets to her door according to the 10-minute theory? Eagle arrives? Anything else?

We also need to factor in the couple on the corner at 12.50am (according to Brown)

The assault couldn't have happened at 12.50am, because the couple didn't see or hear anything and neither did Brown.

Unless of course this couple seen by Brown was actually Stride and her attacker.

If that's the case however, then how did Stride get from that corner when she was seen by Brown, to the yard where she was assaulted?

It can only mean that the assault occurred before Stirde was seen on the corner by Brown

But then why didn't Mortimer see the couple move to and/or from the corner and into the yard IF Stride was seen by Brown?

If Brown saw Stride, then why didn't Mortimer when Stride made her way into the yard where she was later murdered?

This is sort of my point. Mortimer must be away from her door when the pair go into the yard. For Mortimer's claim to be remotely true, she must be at her door both before and after that point. In other words, she is at her door intermittently, not for a single stretch.

But what about Schwartz?

Well, Brown, the couple on the corner, and Mortimer never saw or heard the assault, or saw Bs Man, Schwartz or Pipeman.

So we are back to when could Mortimer be at her door?

BS Man and Pipeman are cartoon characters. Stride was never involved in an incident at the gateway. The only non-murder incident of note that night, was between Schwartz and his wife.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Or the greatest mystery is how the entire story relies on Schwartz alone.

It's statistically more likely that the entire account given by Schwartz never even happened.

It’s not though. If you combed through true crime stories you would find thousands and thousands of examples of a particular incident only being seen by one person. This was a very short incident and would have required an empty street for a very short time.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Hm, that doesn't cut it for me, Andrew - a bit too easy. I'm not saying she wasn't quoted as saying that, because she was, but according to the article she also said that the only man that had passed in the street was a man with a bag and that she'd seen nobody enter the gateway. If she'd seen Eagle, then she should have seen him passing down the street as well, and entering the yard, no less. If she'd seen Lechtford, she would also have seen him passing along the street, too. And I wouldn't say that a couple that could well have been Stride & Parcelman would count as 'anything unusual', considering the circumstances.

Eagle didn't pass through the street, strictly speaking. Letchford is right on 12:30, so that's cutting it a bit fine, and presumably your mentioning of this will invite a mini lecture about unsynchronised clocks. Her not mentioning Brown is neither here nor there by the standards of "nothing unusual". Lave didn't go beyond the gateway. You know all this Frank, so what is the argument?

As for Stride and Parcelman, well who is that the biggest problem for, those who believe a report that claims she went to her door immediately on hearing a policeman's plod, or those who are inclined to ignore that report?

Kozebrodski and Mrs Diemschitz (to the press), and Louis at the inquest, all noted a large quantity of blood running down the stones in the direction of the side door. The murderer seems to have departed well before Diemschitz turns into the street. When then, does this 10-minute vigil begin and end? A while back on this thread, a number of posters stated they did not believe BS was the killer - another man came along. Really? When?