29 Hanbury street & Berner street murder locations??

[Rob1n]

I suppose he was mad enough not to worry, probably, if he was challenged he'd take you on after all, he's got a big knife, possibly other weapons too what would the average person be carrying to defend themselves? Interesting if he did have failed attempts, and I suppose that could have happened, possibly explaining the lack of victims in October? It's possible he wore a disguise or as I say, was totally insane and didn't care if he was seen?

[SuspectZero]

I don’t believe that the two series were committed by the same man. I was just making the point in response to Fisherman’s point about a pattern remaining consistent and how that can possibly square when faced with the differences between the ripper murders and the Torso murders.

OK. Fair enough. I would still suggest that the patterns for both styles are in line with someone motivated to sell body parts. As the police presence increased, the killer moved off the streets, disposing of the torsos afterwards, when they thought it was safer. The outdoor murder sites stopped and they went inside, but the primary goal of removal of body parts continued.

[Herlock Sholmes]

That question suggests you believe the Ripper and Torso murderers to be one and the same. If we accept this hypothesis, then there are no differences between the murders, if one believes the killer was motivated by the the underground anatomical parts business.

I don’t believe that the two series were committed by the same man. I was just making the point in response to Fisherman’s point about a pattern remaining consistent and how that can possibly square when faced with the differences between the ripper murders and the Torso murders.

[SuspectZero]

How do you square that statement against the differences in the Ripper and Torso murders?

That question suggests you believe the Ripper and Torso murderers to be one and the same. If we accept this hypothesis, then there are no differences between the murders, if one believes the killer was motivated by the the underground anatomical parts business.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yes. Alternatively, he committed it at around 3.30-4.00, which is what Phillips claimed, more or less. That would tie the murder in seamlessly with the other weekday strikes, and make a lot of sense - he would be able to work under the cover of darkness and he would have a much better chance to slip away unnoticed. And all in all, once there is a pattern, it is always a useful guess that it would remain consistent throughout.

How do you square that statement against the differences in the Ripper and Torso murders?

[c.d.]

There is no record anywhere that suggests that any prostitute/client activity ever took place in the passageway at the International Club on Berner St... at any time. So I think in Liz Strides case, her killer chose that location, not her.

Hello Michael,

How extensive and reliable would these records be? Was every location in Whitechapel under 24 hour surveillance and someone recorded prostitute/client activity on a regular basis? I can't help but recall the response of famed bank robber Willie Sutton when asked why he kept robbing banks. His response was "because that's where the money is." So if there was a club where a number of men met on a regular basis I would not be surprised that there would be some prostitute/client activity there even if it was on an infrequent basis.

c.d.

[c.d.]

There is always the possibility that for some reason we will never know he wanted to kill the particular women that he did as opposed to just any woman and therefore he was willing to take the risk to bring that about.

c.d.

[SuspectZero]

Alternatively, this wasn't a prostitute/client scenario.

Agree. This seems likely. I think it's more than a coincidence that the Socialist Club was right there. I think the killer was visiting it at the time.

[Sam Flynn]

There is no record anywhere that suggests that any prostitute/client activity ever took place in the passageway at the International Club on Berner St... at any time. So I think in Liz Strides case, her killer chose that location, not her.

Alternatively, this wasn't a prostitute/client scenario.

[Christian]

There is no record anywhere that suggests that any prostitute/client activity ever took place in the passageway at the International Club on Berner St... at any time. So I think in Liz Strides case, her killer chose that location, not her.

Still a very odd choice to pick do you agree?

[Joshua Rogan]

Wasn't there a way to Batty Street from Berner Sam?

Yes, Hampshire Court led between the two, just North of the board school.

[Sam Flynn]

Wasn't there a way to Batty Street from Berner Sam?

Probably, Michael, as it wasn't far away at all.

[Michael W Richards]

It also tells me that he must have been pretty sure that he could get back to safety very quickly. That he committed such an atrocious murder at 29 Hanbury Street at ~5:30 in the morning is particularly telling, I feel.

BTW, I find the idea that he wasn't a local, but had a "bolthole", is invariably a plaster to patch over a favourite suspect theory. The odds are extremely high that he lived in the heart of Spitalfields, within easy reach of Hanbury St, Mitre Square and Dorset Street, which - interestingly - were also the sites of the most elaborate murders.

Wasn't there a way to Batty Street from Berner Sam?

[Michael W Richards]

There is no record anywhere that suggests that any prostitute/client activity ever took place in the passageway at the International Club on Berner St... at any time. So I think in Liz Strides case, her killer chose that location, not her.

[Losmandris]

I doubt whether committing the act so early was his choice. It may well have had a number of abortive attempts earlier in the night or Annie could have kept him talking for a lot longer than he had wanted (or he could have tried to convince her to go somewhere else, less busy but she was having non of it). As he thought he was on to a 'certainty' as it were, he continued, despite the risk of both the location and the fact that it was getting light.