Emma Smith - where exactly?

[Rob Clack]

Hi Lynn,

I don't know exactly but yes I believe it was quite narrow. Probably around 3 feet.

Regards

Rob

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Rob. Thanks. Doesn't look much more than that.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

Thanks for posting that, Rob. I just looked up a similar but quite different view and it shows the same gate. So yes, the gates in Buck's Row and Dutfield's Yard were identical. Which may mean nothing, but it is a striking coincidence. I would imagine the 'man gate' in Buck's Row was also locked at night or else it would have been discussed.

I wonder though if when Nichols led the Ripper (or vice verse) to that location, was it expected that they'd have access to the yard behind the gate? Or were they merely intending to take advantage of the modicum of privacy offered by the enclave of the gateway?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Incidentally, I believe Rob possesses an actual photograph, taken at the same time as the famous Berner Street street scene, but a street over, and in that photo is a gateway like Berner Street's used to appear.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

visualisation

Hello Tom, Rob. Splendid. This all helps with the visualisation.

Cheers.
LC

[Archaic]

The Two Gates

Hi Rob, thanks very much for posting the image of the gate. And thanks Tom for your reply.

The gate is quite different from how I had pictured it- I thought the 'wicket' or door was off to the side and a bit taller, not located right in the center, tiny, and raised so awkwardly above the ground! I guess it would have made it harder for burglars to steal something at night and carry it away.

It does seem a very strange coincidence that two Ripper crime scenes should have identical gates. Was that a common design at the time? I don't recall having seen such a gate in old photographs. I wonder if they date to the late 18th or very early 19th Centuries?

Maybe prostitutes thought such gates were good for a few minutes of "after hours" privacy in a dark yard and offered a quick quiet entrance and exit , so they hung around those areas?

I'd love to see the photo of a similar gate Rob if you happen to have it.

Thanks very much,
Archaic

[Roy Corduroy]

Incidentally, I believe Rob possesses an actual photograph, taken at the same time as the famous Berner Street street scene, but a street over, and in that photo is a gateway like Berner Street's used to appear.

There's this one in the Photo Archive in "B "of other specific locations (click here) from Backchurch Lane one street over

Yeah it seems like Rob had a closeup photo, too. Hope he'll be kind enough to share it again after they all get back from disco over in swingin' England

Roy

[Wickerman]

It does seem a very strange coincidence that two Ripper crime scenes should have identical gates. Was that a common design at the time?

Yes it was fairly common, and perhaps you might care to read an example of its role in this mystery...

"The stranger refused to stand Mrs. Kennedy and her sister a drink, but invited them to go with him down a dark sideway off the main road. They accompanied him as far as a gateway with a small door in it, but when he stepped through and left his bag on the ground, saying he would take either of them with him, a feeling of distrust seized the women."
Evening News, 10 Nov. 1888.

A near-miss perhaps...?

Regards, Jon S.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Roy, that's precisely the photo I was thinking of. Goodonya.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Rob Clack]

Here's a close up of the Back Church Lane gate and one in Fairclough Street. Both taken at the same time as the Berner Street photo.





Rob

[curious]

Yes it was fairly common, and perhaps you might care to read an example of its role in this mystery...

"The stranger refused to stand Mrs. Kennedy and her sister a drink, but invited them to go with him down a dark sideway off the main road. They accompanied him as far as a gateway with a small door in it, but when he stepped through and left his bag on the ground, saying he would take either of them with him, a feeling of distrust seized the women."
Evening News, 10 Nov. 1888.

A near-miss perhaps...?

Regards, Jon S.

Kind of makes me wonder if the gate was locked only after Polly was killed.

Would that not have made a perfect "escape"?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Curious. Well, he'd be locked inside that yard, so maybe not.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Archaic]

Gate Photos

Here's a close up of the Back Church Lane gate and one in Fairclough Street. Both taken at the same time as the Berner Street photo.
Rob

Thanks Rob!!

I can always count on you to have what I'm looking for. It really is like having a personal Genie.

There was no Genie smilie available, so here's a Magic Hat for you to pull tricks out of:

Cheers,
Archaic

[Archaic]

LVP Graffiti

Look, there's c. 1909 graffiti on this gate!

Looks like chalk. Can anybody make out the large writing? Looks like the last 4 letters are -SKIN or -SKIM.

I find this photo very interesting. Personally, I believe the Ripper killed both Liz Stride and wrote the Goulston Street Graffito, and I suspect that his original intention that night was to write his graffito upon the big wooden gate at Dutfield's Yard. Wooden gates appear to be an ideal surface for LVP chalk, which by the way was of a somewhat different consistency from modern chalk. Modern chalk is mixed with other ingredients now to make it smoother, creamier, and less dusty.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Tom_Wescott]

Pilskin. Either that or something about the Jews not being blamed. Take your pick.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott