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  • Cogidubnus
    replied
    Another old thread revived

    I rather think that to the people living in the area at the time, the boundaries were generally regarded in a far more arbitrary or fluid fashion.

    I have ancestors who are described in family history as dying in Stepney poorhouse when it is clear that Mile End Old Town is intended , (My great great grandfather Jeremiah McCarthy, no relation as far as I know, for example).

    My own mother is described on her birth certificate as being born at an address in Raine Street, St George in the East - this is all true but she was actually born in the Wapping Poorhouse...which is a piece of official connivance intended to avoid embarassment to folk in this situation.

    I've ancestor's described in family history as living in Wapping when Whitechapel was the case, and vice versa...does it matter?

    All the best

    Dave

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  • Roy Corduroy
    replied
    Link

    Colin, you mentioned that link to the brown Parish map has gone dead. Here is a better link but it only gets you so far.



    You will notice the list of maps here is north of London. To get the London area maps, including Middlesex, you must center the map on London, then zoom in (use the box in the lower right as a guide). Eventually you will see Middlesex, Kent, Essex etc maps listed.

    Roy

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  • Roy Corduroy
    replied
    Here is an 1877 map (click) with Poor Law Districts marked with a dotted line and Ecclesiastical Districts marked with a solid line and population shown.

    But for the whole of London, this section alone has a special area outlined in purple, with an enblem inside, which is a mystery to me. It doesn't concide with the parish or poor law boundaries of the area as known.

    Roy

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  • Septic Blue
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
    Assuming that Swanson did, in fact, write the so-called 'marginalia'; he probably made a mistake. Use of the term "workhouse" (if, in fact, in reference to Aaron Kosminski), was a mistake in itself. Aaron Kosminski was twice admitted to an infirmary; not a workhouse.
    That at least is a mistake Swanson can be absolved of. It was the workhouse, not the infirmary, on both occasions (ref. London Metropolitan Archives StBG/ME/116/5).
    Well, then I have made a mistake, for which I cannot be absolved.

    Admittedly, I was making an assumption: That Kosminski would have been placed in a so-called 'Imbecile Ward'; and that such a ward would have been part of the infirmary.

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  • Chris
    replied
    Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
    Assuming that Swanson did, in fact, write the so-called 'marginalia'; he probably made a mistake. Use of the term "workhouse" (if, in fact, in reference to Aaron Kosminski), was a mistake in itself. Aaron Kosminski was twice admitted to an infirmary; not a workhouse.
    That at least is a mistake Swanson can be absolved of. It was the workhouse, not the infirmary, on both occasions (ref. London Metropolitan Archives StBG/ME/116/5).

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  • Septic Blue
    Guest replied
    Perhaps this will simplify the whole 'equation'.

    ---------


    Click image for larger version

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    The Poor Law Constituencies of the Metropolitan Borough of Stepney:
    - Red: Whitechapel Poor Law Union
    - Blue: Mile End Old Town Poor Law Parish
    - Orange: St. George in the East Poor Law Parish
    - Green: Stepney Poor Law Union

    Each constituency owned and operated its own workhouse, infirmary and casual ward; solely for the benefit of its resident paupers.

    The locations of these facilities were irrelevant: They provided 'Poor Relief' almost exclusively to those who resided within the respective The Poor Law Constituency.

    Hence, they were named accordingly (regardless of location):

    - Whitechapel Union Workhouse
    - Whitechapel Union Infirmary
    - Mile End Old Town Workhouse
    - Mile End Old Town Infirmary
    - St. George in the East Workhouse
    - St. George in the East Infirmary
    - Stepney Union Workhouse
    - Poplar & Stepney Sick Asylum

    And I would certainly think that the most common colloquial references were as follows:

    - 'Whitechapel Workhouse'
    - 'Whitechapel Infirmary'
    - 'Mile End Workhouse'
    - 'Mile End Infirmary'
    - 'St. George's Workhouse'
    - 'St. George's Infirmary'
    - 'Stepney Workhouse'
    - 'Poplar & Stepney Sick Asylum' (?); 'Bromley Sick Asylum' (?)

    ---------

    As the administration of 'Poor Relief' did not fall under the jurisdiction of the Borough Councils; the 1900 establishment of the Metropolitan Borough of Stepney was probably not a factor in any portion of the above 'equation'.

    Assuming that Swanson did, in fact, write the so-called 'marginalia'; he probably made a mistake. Use of the term "workhouse" (if, in fact, in reference to Aaron Kosminski), was a mistake in itself. Aaron Kosminski was twice admitted to an infirmary; not a workhouse.

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  • Septic Blue
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
    Here (click)

    The Vision of Britain site.
    Many Thanks !!!

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  • Septic Blue
    Guest replied
    First; the 'Nutshell' …

    Workhouses in the Metropolitan Borough of Stepney:

    - Whitechapel Union Workhouse
    - Mile End Old Town Workhouse
    - St. George in the East Workhouse
    - Stepney Union Workhouse*

    * Situated outside the Metropolitan Borough of Stepney; but provided 'Poor Relief' almost exclusively to a subset of its populace

    ------------

    The Metropolitan Borough of Stepney was established in 1900, in accordance with the London Government Act, 1899; replacing what had been the following administrative units of The Metropolitan Board of Works:

    Whitechapel District:
    - The Liberty of Norton Folgate
    - The Old Artillery Ground
    - The Parish of Christ Church Spitalfields
    - The Hamlet of Mile End New Town
    - The Parish of Holy Trinity (Minories)
    - The Parish of St. Mary Whitechapel (Middlesex portion)
    - The Liberty of Her Majesty's Tower of London
    --- The Liberty of the Tower
    --- The Precinct of Old Tower Without
    --- The Tower
    - The Precinct of St. Katharine
    - The Parish of St. Botolph without Aldgate (Middlesex portion)

    Mile End Old Town Parish:
    - The Hamlet of Mile End Old Town

    St. George in the East Parish:
    - The Parish of St. George in the East

    Limehouse District:
    - The Parish of St. John of Wapping
    - The Parish of St. Paul Shadwell
    - The Hamlet of Ratcliff
    - The Parish of St. Anne Limehouse

    Further east, The Metropolitan Borough of Poplar replaced what had been a similar administrative unit of The Metropolitan Board of Works:

    Poplar District:
    - The Parish of St. Mary Stratford Bow
    - The Parish of Bromley St. Leonard
    - The Parish of All Saints Poplar

    However, the provision of 'Poor Relief', through the operation of Poor Law institutions (i.e. workhouses, infirmaries, casual wards, etc …), remained the responsibility of the respective Poor Law Parish (e.g. Mile End Old Town) or Poor Law Union (e.g. Whitechapel), and was administered accordingly:

    Whitechapel Poor Law Union (1837-1921); Whitechapel Poor Law Parish (1921-1925):
    - The Liberty of Norton Folgate
    - The Old Artillery Ground
    - The Parish of Christ Church Spitalfields
    - The Hamlet of Mile End New Town
    - The Parish of Holy Trinity (Minories)
    - The Parish of St. Mary Whitechapel (Middlesex portion)
    - The Liberty of Her Majesty's Tower of London
    --- The Liberty of the Tower
    --- The Precinct of Old Tower Without
    --- The Tower
    - The Precinct of St. Katharine
    - The Parish of St. Botolph without Aldgate (Middlesex portion)

    __ Whitechapel Union Workhouse, South Grove, Hamlet of Mile End Old Town (1872-1921)
    __ Whitechapel Union Infirmary, Charles Street / Baker's Row / Vallance Road, Hamlet of Mile End New Town (1872-1921)


    Mile End Old Town Poor Law Parish (1857-1925):
    - The Hamlet of Mile End Old Town

    __ Mile End Old Town Workhouse, Bancroft Road, Hamlet of Mile End Old Town (1859-1925)
    __ Mile End Old Town Infirmary (located on the grounds of Mile End Old Town Workhouse)


    St. George in the East Poor Law Parish (1836-1925):
    - The Parish of St. George in the East

    __ St. George in the East Workhouse, Raine Street, Parish of St. George in the East (1836-1925)
    __ St. George in the East Infirmary (located on the grounds of St. George in the East Workhouse)


    Stepney Poor Law Union (1836-1921); Limehouse Poor Law Parish (1921-1925):
    - The Parish of St. John of Wapping
    - The Parish of St. Paul Shadwell
    - The Hamlet of Ratcliff
    - The Parish of St. Anne Limehouse
    - The Hamlet of Mile End Old Town (1836–1857)

    __ Stepney Union Workhouse, St. Leonard's Street, Parish of Bromley St. Leonard (1863-1921)
    __ Poplar & Stepney Sick Asylum, Devon's Road, Parish of Bromley St. Leonard (1871-1930?) – A Poor Law infirmary, shared by the Poor Law Unions of Poplar and Stepney (Poplar & Stepney Sick Asylum District) – If the "Kosminski" purportedly named by Swanson, was in fact entrusted to the care of the Guardians of Stepney Poor Law Union*, then he was in all likelihood, admitted to this facility, as opposed to Stepney Union Workhouse


    * This would almost invariably have necessitated his being a resident of Stepney Poor Law Union (the Parish of St. John of Wapping; the Parish of St. Paul Shadwell; the Hamlet of Ratcliff; the Parish of St. Anne Limehouse) or Poplar Poor Law Union (the Parish of St. Mary Stratford Bow; the Parish of Bromley St. Leonard; the Parish of All Saints Poplar), as opposed to "his brother's house in Whitechapel".

    Poplar Poor Law Union (1836-1907); Poplar Borough Poor Law Parish (1907-1930):
    - The Parish of St. Mary Stratford Bow
    - The Parish of Bromley St. Leonard
    - The Parish of All Saints Poplar

    __ Poplar Union Workhouse, Poplar High Street, Parish of All Saints Poplar (1836-1907)
    __ Poplar & Stepney Sick Asylum, Devon's Road, Parish of Bromley St. Leonard (1871-1930?) – A Poor Law infirmary, shared by the Poor Law Unions of Poplar and Stepney (Poplar & Stepney Sick Asylum District)


    Consolidation of London's Poor Law geography within the framework of its Metropolitan Boroughs was not implemented until the 1920's:

    - 1857: Removal of the Hamlet of Mile End Old Town, from Stepney Poor Law Union; in Accordance with the Establishment of Mile End Old Town Poor Law Parish

    - 1858-1859: Construction of Mile End Old Town Workhouse

    - 1861-1863: Construction of Stepney Union Workhouse, on acquired land in the Parish of Bromley St. Leonard (Poplar Poor Law Union)

    - 1868: Establishment of Poplar & Stepney Sick Asylum District

    - 1869-1871: Construction of Poplar & Stepney Sick Asylum

    - 1900: Establishment of The Metropolitan Borough of Stepney, in accordance with the London Government Act, 1899; Existing Poor Law Parishes and Poor Law Unions remained fully intact, under the administration of their respective Board's of Guardians

    - 1907: Re-Designation of Poplar Poor Law Union as 'Poplar Borough Parish' (cosmetic change)

    - 1913: Discontinuation of the term 'Workhouse' throughout most of the English Poor Law system (cosmetic change)

    Most workhouses assumed the designation 'Poor Law Institution' or "Guardians' Institution"; but some took on more colorful names:

    - St. George in the East Workhouse became 'The House'
    - Stepney Union Workhouse became 'Bromley House Institution'
    - The City of London Union Infirmary became 'Bow Institution'
    - Bethnal Green Workhouse became 'Waterloo House'

    - Interestingly, Shoreditch Poor Law Parish came under the jurisdiction of certain Acts, which pre-dated the Poor Law Amendment Act, 1834:

    - Shoreditch Workhouse remained 'Shoreditch Workhouse'

    1921: Re-Designation of Whitechapel Poor Law Union as 'Whitechapel Poor Law Parish' (cosmetic change); Re-Designation of Stepney Poor Law Union as 'Limehouse Poor Law Parish' (cosmetic change)

    1925: Establishment of new Stepney Poor Law Union, encompassing all of The Metropolitan Borough of Stepney, and administered by a single Board of Guardians

    - Whitechapel Poor Law Parish
    - Mile End Old Town Poor Law Parish
    - St. George in the East Poor Law Parish
    - Limehouse Poor Law Parish

    1927: Re-Designation of Stepney Poor Law Union as 'Stepney Union Parish' (cosmetic change)

    1930: Abolishment of English Poor Law system

    ------------

    Rob,

    PM your telephone number, and I'll give you a ring; if you think that might be helpful.

    Also: You did a great job with the overlay; but the portion of St. Botolph without Aldgate that is encompassed by a dotted line, was – and remains to this day – in the City of London.

    Leave a comment:


  • Roy Corduroy
    replied
    Rob, here is a Stepney borough map. (click)

    Originally posted by robhouse View Post
    In other words, I am thinking that by 1910, after which time Swanson wrote the marginalia, the MEOT workhouse was the only workhouse actually within the borough of Stepney, and thus might have been referred to colloquially as Stepney Workhouse.
    Could be.

    Roy

    Leave a comment:


  • robhouse
    replied
    Thanks for all the replies.

    I now have a follow up question... concerning the boundary of the Borough of Stepney (after 1900). As far as I understand, the Borough of Stepney was created in 1900 by combining the following areas:

    * Limehouse
    * Mile End New Town
    * Mile End Old Town
    * Norton Folgate
    * Old Artillery Ground
    * Ratcliff
    * St Botolph Without Aldgate
    * St George in the East
    * Shadwell
    * Spitalfields
    * Stepney
    * Tower of London
    * Wapping
    * Whitechapel

    On the attached map, I believe the Borough of Stepney corresponds roughly to the area in brown. (Can someone confirm this?) The red highlighted area is Poplar (also a borough?).

    The reason I am asking this is because of Swanson's statement that Kosminski was admitted to "Stepney workhouse".

    If I understand this correctly... by the time Swanson wrote the marginalia (circa 1910-1924) Mile End Old Town Workhouse was the only workhouse actually within the borough of Stepney. The other workhouses illustrated on the map are Stepney Union workhouse, and Limehouse workhouse. Stepney Union workhouse was (if I understand this correctly) NOT actually within the borough of Stepney but was instead in Poplar. And Limehouse workhouse (according to http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.h.../Stepney.shtml) was probably gone by then. ("By 1915, however, a brewery stood on the site." -- see above link at workhouses.org.uk)

    Does anyone have any comments? Does this reasoning sound correct?

    In other words, I am thinking that by 1910, after which time Swanson wrote the marginalia, the MEOT workhouse was the only workhouse actually within the borough of Stepney, and thus might have been referred to colloquially as Stepney Workhouse.

    Thanks again.

    Rob House
    Attached Files
    Last edited by robhouse; 07-28-2009, 01:43 AM.

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  • Roy Corduroy
    replied
    Here (click)

    The Vision of Britain site.

    Leave a comment:


  • Septic Blue
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
    Ordnance Survey - Sanitary Districts, showing Civil Parishes - Middlesex 1888
    Nice Map!

    Where did you find it?
    Last edited by Guest; 07-27-2009, 09:59 PM.

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  • Roy Corduroy
    replied
    Ordnance Survey - Sanitary Districts, showing Civil Parishes - Middlesex 1888

    Click image for larger version

Name:	parish3.jpg
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  • Septic Blue
    Guest replied
    Click image for larger version

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    The Hamlet of Mile End Old Town (western-most portion) - 1873 OS (Click to View in flickr)

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  • Chris
    replied
    I was going to recommend this site -
    http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/at...&c_id=10001043 -
    but comparing with the maps above, it appears to show Mile End Old Town 100-200 yards north of where it should be!

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