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  • #31
    Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
    Colloquial; through-and-through!

    "St. George's (What?) in the East"
    ...church?

    "St."[anything]'s I've always taken to refer to a church. Uniquely English usage it seems(to this yank).

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    • #32
      Originally posted by JennyL View Post
      ...church?

      "St."[anything]'s I've always taken to refer to a church. Uniquely English usage it seems(to this yank).
      'St. George's Church'

      'St. George's Parish'

      'St. George's Workhouse'

      'St. George's Infirmary'

      'St. George's Vestry Hall'

      'St. George's Mortuary'

      ... are all proper references!

      "St. George's in the East" is an improper reference!

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      • #33
        I'd thought that the "possessive" which is not strictly correct was just a common UK colloquialism, a familiarity thing?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
          That's because you are accustomed to it!
          Perhaps, but I don't believe I call it such (correct me if I'm wrong).

          Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
          Is 'George's Yard' obnoxious? You saw fit to bring it to our attention - for good reason, I might add!
          It irks me, but I don't find it obnoxious, no.
          Last edited by John Bennett; 09-22-2009, 08:47 PM.

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          • #35
            For clarification:

            Elizabeth Stride was murdered in the Parish of St. George in the East (i.e. St. George's Parish).

            Her body was taken to the Parish Mortuary of St. George in the East (i.e. St. George's Mortuary);

            on the grounds of the Parish Church of St. George in the East (i.e. St. George's Church).

            The corresponding inquest was held at the Vestry Hall, Parish of St. George in the East (i.e. St. George's Vestry Hall).

            Originally posted by JennyL View Post
            I'd thought that the "possessive" which is not strictly correct was just a common UK colloquialism, a familiarity thing?
            That is my point: "St. George's in the East" is a colloquialism! It should therefore not be used in formal narration pertaining to the case of 'Jack the Ripper'; or for that matter, in any other formal historical narration.

            And it is most certainly, to my ear, obnoxious!

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            • #36
              The Yard in the East that belonged to St. George.

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              • #37
                It's strange, but although I don't find some of these inaccuracies 'obnoxious', they do irritate me somewhat.

                These, for example, all of which I have read or heard (and make me cringe a bit):

                Wood's Dwellings
                The 'Ten Bells' and neighbouring sites being in Whitechapel
                Wentworth Buildings
                Castle Street
                Durwood Street

                With all due respect to others, 'St George's in the East' is wrong, I know that, but it doesn't get my gander up too much. Neither does 'setts' vs. 'cobbles', as another example.

                Perhaps they should!
                Last edited by John Bennett; 09-22-2009, 09:26 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by John Bennett View Post
                  With all due respect to others, 'St George's in the East' is wrong, I know that, but it doesn't get my gander up too much. Neither does 'setts' vs. 'cobbles', as another example.

                  Perhaps they should!
                  "... 'St George's in the East' is wrong, I know that, but it doesn't get my gander up too much."

                  That's probably because it isn't 'inaccurate', so-to-speak!

                  What about 'candy', 'cookies', 'sidewalk' and 'soccer'?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post

                    What about 'candy', 'cookies', 'sidewalk' and 'soccer'?
                    Yo!! Stateside!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
                      "... 'St George's in the East' is wrong, I know that, but it doesn't get my gander up too much."

                      That's probably because it isn't 'inaccurate', so-to-speak!

                      What about 'candy', 'cookies', 'sidewalk' and 'soccer'?
                      What-you mean sweets, biscuits, pavement(?)..and I wouldn't touch football.

                      Still can't get the sports right.

                      To bring it back to the topic so I the newbie don't get smershed here: I wonder-how often does the typical US tourist on a Ripper tour say "Wha-HUH??" to a britspeak(i.e. proper english)phrase spoken by the Tour Guide? I take pride in no one taking much notice of my origins when I'm in London myself, but oh, my countrymen(some of them)!

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by JennyL View Post
                        I wonder-how often does the typical US tourist on a Ripper tour say "Wha-HUH??" to a britspeak(i.e. proper english)phrase spoken by the Tour Guide?
                        This sounds familiar - what is "wha-huh?" an expression of, Jenny? Just want to make sure.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by John Bennett View Post
                          This sounds familiar - what is "wha-huh?" an expression of, Jenny? Just want to make sure.
                          General all-around stupefaction, John. The native call of a certain sort of american tourist on holi--I mean, vacation. Frequently heard in UK eateries, i.e. "saveloy? Wha-Hunh??" or in B&Bs at breakfast: "Wha-huh's this? I ordered bacon! ?!"

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                          • #43
                            Thanks Jenny.

                            I don't think I've heard it on a tour. At least I can't remember hearing it. Maybe others have! Phil!?

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                            • #44
                              Oh, there are a million variations, John!

                              Seriously as I'm looking forward to my first Ripper tour with one of you one day soon, I hope my own experience is a smooth, no-hiccups one-that is, with no dumb questions asked--especially by me.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
                                Elizabeth Stride was murdered in the Parish of St. George in the East (i.e. St. George's Parish).
                                I hate to further detract from the topic of this thread; but I believe that some will find this to be of interest.

                                Click image for larger version

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                                Hamlet of Mile End Old Town 1894 / Parish of St. George in the East 1843, 1897(?)* (Click to View in flickr)

                                Marking the boundary between the Hamlet of Mile End Old Town & the Parish of St. George in the East; which coincided with Commercial Road, from Back Church Lane to Jubilee Street, before briefly running through the alley on the north side of the George Tavern.

                                M.E.O.T.
                                1894
                                /
                                St. GEORGE'S PARISH
                                1843
                                /
                                St. GEORGE MIDDx
                                (1897)(?)*

                                i.e. …

                                Hamlet of Mile End Old Town, 1894
                                /
                                St. George's Parish, 1843
                                /
                                Parish of St. George, County of Middlesex, 18(??)*

                                * The hand-painted '1897' (?) is probably a modern interpretation; as the Parish of St. George in the East became a component of the newly established County of London, in 1889.
                                Last edited by Septic Blue; 09-23-2009, 12:37 AM.

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