The People of the Abyss

[Mr.Hyde]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fourpence_coffin.JPG
That is what you got for an extra tuppence.
Fourpence was the tax on a newspaper in 1853.
One had to be desperate to pay that extra penny for the rope.Free download of "The People of the Abyss".
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1688

[harry]

I believe a few of you are on the wrong track.I have never demanded that photographs be the only proof,in fact photos only show a split second of time so would hardly constitute several hours proof of sleep..Khanada asks what choice did those people have.Well I would think the choice to sleep on a floor in a natural position.I have never denied the living conditions of the poor of that time.What I have stressed,,and shown by proof,is that 'Children of the Abyss'contains a chapter that is undeniably false,namely the encounter with a Victoria Cross winner.If Jack London could be so wrong on that,what else could he be wrong about.I have urged caution in accepting anything written of that period to be the literal truth.Authors,as well as being in error,are as liable to lie as anyone else.The most,and perhaps the only form of information on doss houses from that period,is in documented form.It would now be almost impossible to verify some of the truth of what is written.We are then left with only two choices.To believe or to disbelieve.I have shown a disbelief of only one claim,that of sleeping for hours suspended over a rope,but from the amount of posts opposing me it is if I am claiming everything written of that period is false.Read what I write.Now let me take George Orwell as a witness.He did not even arrive in England untill 1927,the same year I was born.Anything to do with the period in question,would be from a secondry source,not from his own experience.What is that source?We do not know because he didn't say.He is not a good reference,and Charles Dickens was of a period many years in the past.Now what's left?There are of course the newspapers and magazines..As most of them were full of the social conditions existing,one might expext any unnatural activity to be widely and regularly reported.Was sleeping on ropes,a most unnatural act,so reported.It is good that an experiment is to be made,and no offence to the person involved,but I would expect independent witness to be present.

[Nothing to see]

I believe a few of you are on the wrong track.I have never demanded that photographs be the only proof,in fact photos only show a split second of time so would hardly constitute several hours proof of sleep..Khanada asks what choice did those people have.Well I would think the choice to sleep on a floor in a natural position.I have never denied the living conditions of the poor of that time.What I have stressed,,and shown by proof,is that 'Children of the Abyss'contains a chapter that is undeniably false,namely the encounter with a Victoria Cross winner.If Jack London could be so wrong on that,what else could he be wrong about.I have urged caution in accepting anything written of that period to be the literal truth.Authors,as well as being in error,are as liable to lie as anyone else.The most,and perhaps the only form of information on doss houses from that period,is in documented form.It would now be almost impossible to verify some of the truth of what is written.We are then left with only two choices.To believe or to disbelieve.I have shown a disbelief of only one claim,that of sleeping for hours suspended over a rope,but from the amount of posts opposing me it is if I am claiming everything written of that period is false.Read what I write.Now let me take George Orwell as a witness.He did not even arrive in England untill 1927,the same year I was born.Anything to do with the period in question,would be from a secondry source,not from his own experience.What is that source?We do not know because he didn't say.He is not a good reference,and Charles Dickens was of a period many years in the past.Now what's left?There are of course the newspapers and magazines..As most of them were full of the social conditions existing,one might expext any unnatural activity to be widely and regularly reported.Was sleeping on ropes,a most unnatural act,so reported.It is good that an experiment is to be made,and no offence to the person involved,but I would expect independent witness to be present.

Hey, good for you if you can provide proof that they didn't sleep lying against ropes. But have you had a look at the number of persons 'supposedly' sleeping in these doss houses against the number of people who actually did.

Men like McCarthy ( not him in particular but as an example) would take whatever matresses, whatever 'evidence' could be used against them, off to somewhere else during the day when the doss house 'inspection' was made.

Because you don't agree with Jack London. Well, OK. But he was there a long time before we were born.

Myself, I'll read what he writes and accept it as reasonably true, until someone proves it's definitely false.

[Mr.Hyde]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_People_of_the_Abyss
Hi Harry,
If we convince you,you do realise that you will then be known as "Harry the Roper",
All the Best.

[smezenen]

Sorry Khanada, I dont snore and I can prove that one. Why just last night I stayed up all night waiting to hear myself do it..............nothing not even one little snort

[smezenen]

Harry,
Yes I figured you would want independent verification so i am inviting you to attend the experiment along with anyone else who would like to share my rope. I plan to start on monday night the 30th of march and continue until that friday. So folks if your in southern california next week and need a place to sleep im only charging twopennys.

[Bulldog]

Hi smezenen,

I'm not really keen on sharing the rope, but since you won't be using your Southern California bed, I might be interested in renting it for four pennies a night.

Bulldog

[harry]

Smezenen,
You will be fair in your experiment.I mean,it will be the same kind of people that Jack London describes,and not super fit paratroopers.Old and sick people included.The down and out's of America,I hear there are quite a few there.No need for me to be there,Send me a video,say about 7 hours duration,and include the names of independent referees.I'll take their word.
Mr Hyde,
You can call me anything you wish,provided you prove you can do it.Fair go.
Nothing to see,
There were ,according to Jack London,38,000 people registered as living in doss houses,Check 'Children of the abbyss'.Jack London was in London,England,in the month of August,1902,and I have proved something he wrote to be definately false.And no,its not lying against ropes,it's sleeping draped over ropes.Again,tell me who was witness to the spectacle?It wasn't Jack London.He doesn't say he saw it,and how do you know what Mcarthy would have done? Does that answer your post.It seems the evidence against me is falling apart.What are they going to call you if you are wrong.

[smezenen]

Harry,
Im not exactly the fit to fight paratrooper I once was. I am planning to use my spouse as a (lab rat) subject as well as myself. at this time of the year we dont have the vagrant population we will have in a another month or so but I will attepmt to find a few people to help. maybe my children and their friends. I dont have the equiptment to produce long digital videos. I can do pictures and short videos with my digital camera. The purpose of this experimant is not and im sure you will agree can never prove that people of victorian london slept in this way but is rather to figure out how they would have done it and show that it is a possibility.

[harry]

Smezenen,
Fair enough.I wish you well.

[Mr.Hyde]

Mr.Hyde

Smezenen,
Fair enough.I wish you well.

Hi Harry,
I watched "12 Angry Men" and listened to Tony Hancock's parody.
smezenen and I are obviously considering instigating a 12 Step Pogram (sic).
Wanna be the first.
Really, only kidding mate.
Again,all the best,
Dave.

[smezenen]

Dave,
im already on step 6 but i'll wait for ya to catch up

[Mr.Hyde]

Mr.Hyde

Dave,
im already on step 6 but i'll wait for ya to catch up

JTR was a bit short on step 8!

[harry]

Some comments on the title thread'People of the abbyss'.They are stupid and heavy,without imagination.It is incontrovertible that the children grow up into rotten adults,without virility or stamina,a weak kneed,narrow chested,listless breed.Neither as workers nor as soldiers can they come up to the mark,when England in her need,calls upon them.(Jack London.Chapter 19)
My reply.Twelve years later,in 1914,they enlisted in their thousands,and formed battalions that that were the equal of those of any country that fought in the first world war.
Whatever is true of london,in the way of poverty and degradation,is true of all England.(Jack London).Anyone explain how persons brought up in these conditions could have forged and held an empire,the size of which had never been seen before.

Chapter 24.Jack London writing of Commercial St,1902. It is rather hard to tell a tithe of what I saw.Much of it is untellable.But in a general way I may say that I saw a nightmare,a fearful slime that quickened the pavement with life,a mess of unmentionable obscenity.It was a menagerie of garmented bipeds that looked something like humans,and more like beasts.
So now we have a good idea of what Hutchinson,Barnet,Lusk,Aberline,Kelly,Eddowes,etc, would have looked like.How the hell did England survive?

[Mr.Hyde]

Mr.Hyde

Dave,
im already on step 6 but i'll wait for ya to catch up

JTR pretty much misinterpreted Step 9 as well!
Oddly,he was a Mason.Reckon he will be a member(possibly "founding member") of one Lodge and visitor to one or two-within the Spacial "thingy".Most likely a "teacher".
Likes-Carlyle and Spinoza.