All Roads Lead to Dorset St.,

[MrBarnett]

Have you read The Bank Holiday Murders?

I have indeed.

[Batman]

I'm not sure there was obvious stonewalling by the lodging house management in the first two cases.

Have you read The Bank Holiday Murders?

[Batman]

Nothing apart from the almost suicidal choice of location. The dossers were locked in at night and the house was full to the brim.

The thing is, would this have been an obstacle for JtR who had no problems going through people's houses and into their back gardens to murder a woman with him, or into a square to murder another with PCs on the beat who could catch him at any moment via the only two pathways in and out, or to go down a cul-de-sac and into a room with only one way in/out to murder a woman?

One could almost call it an escalation of location for the thrill, although not an escalation in the crime itself, but it was bad all the same and with sadistic sexual overtones.

Maybe it wasn't him. Maybe it was. Still given what we know about Smith, Tabram, Kelly and Dorset St., it is certainly a consideration.

[MrBarnett]

Which seems to be the conclusion I read in The Bank Holiday Murders by Wescott for Smith and Tabram. The police were stonewalled by them.

Austin was stabbed in the vagina. Same area targetted on Emma Smith which killed her. Tabram's genitals had been stabbed. Also Tabram was left posed in a sexual position with her legs spread, just like most of the JtR victims.

Plus there is nothing seeming to rule out Austin's killer from being JtR.

I'm not sure there was obvious stonewalling by the lodging house management in the first two cases. There clearly was in the Austin case.

Pearly Poll seems to have gone out of her way to drag a ripe red herring through the Tabram investigation, though.

[MrBarnett]

Which seems to be the conclusion I read in The Bank Holiday Murders by Wescott for Smith and Tabram. The police were stonewalled by them.

Austin was stabbed in the vagina. Same area targetted on Emma Smith which killed her. Tabram's genitals had been stabbed. Also Tabram was left posed in a sexual position with her legs spread, just like most of the JtR victims.

Plus there is nothing seeming to rule out Austin's killer from being JtR.

Nothing apart from the almost suicidal choice of location. The dossers were locked in at night and the house was full to the brim.

[MrBarnett]

Which reached a peak in 1901 and was presumably the reason the name was changed shortly afterwards. I think it was Wynne Baxter who dealing with yet another sudden death in 'Duval' Street enquired where it was. When it was explained to him that it was the renamed Dorset Street he commented 'Ah, an old friend with a new name'. (Or something along those lines)

'Face', not 'name'. Sorry!

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=25060&highlight=Duval

[Batman]

The big difference, of course, is that Smith and Tabram were attacked in secluded spots. Whoever attacked Austin was either extremely reckless of discovery or felt he was in some way invulnerable.

Local Inspector Thomas Divall, who investigated the case, was of the opinion that the killer was a 'well-known local character' who was being shielded by the staff and residents of Crossingham's.

Which seems to be the conclusion I read in The Bank Holiday Murders by Wescott for Smith and Tabram. The police were stonewalled by them.

Austin was stabbed in the vagina. Same area targetted on Emma Smith which killed her. Tabram's genitals had been stabbed. Also Tabram was left posed in a sexual position with her legs spread, just like most of the JtR victims.

Plus there is nothing seeming to rule out Austin's killer from being JtR.

[MrBarnett]

Which neatly illustrates Trevor’s earlier point about the street's bad reputation.

Which reached a peak in 1901 and was presumably the reason the name was changed shortly afterwards. I think it was Wynne Baxter who dealing with yet another sudden death in 'Duval' Street enquired where it was. When it was explained to him that it was the renamed Dorset Street he commented 'Ah, an old friend with a new name'. (Or something along those lines)

[MrBarnett]

Emma Smith wasn't stabbed, Tabram was over-stabbed, and both were attacked in public places. I see no grounds for comparison.

Gareth,

If you go along with Tom's argument re Tabram in TBHM, then the location of the wounds is comparable.

Gary

[Batman]

Which neatly illustrates Trevor’s earlier point about the street's bad reputation.

Which is impossible to miss just by reading a basic wikipedia on Dorset St.,

However as the facts of the case are, Dorset St., is obviously important.

[MrBarnett]

This is really interesting because of comparisons to Emma Smith and Martha Tabram.

Thanks.

The big difference, of course, is that Smith and Tabram were attacked in secluded spots. Whoever attacked Austin was either extremely reckless of discovery or felt he was in some way invulnerable.

Local Inspector Thomas Divall, who investigated the case, was of the opinion that the killer was a 'well-known local character' who was being shielded by the staff and residents of Crossingham's.

[Sam Flynn]

This is really interesting because of comparisons to Emma Smith and Martha Tabram.

Emma Smith wasn't stabbed, Tabram was over-stabbed, and both were attacked in public places. I see no grounds for comparison.

[Sam Flynn]

Well, someone fatally stabbed Mary Ann Austin in a cubicle in 35, Dorset Street a decade or so later.

Which neatly illustrates Trevor’s earlier point about the street's bad reputation.

[Batman]

Well, someone fatally stabbed Mary Ann Austin in a cubicle in 35, Dorset Street a decade or so later.

This is really interesting because of comparisons to Emma Smith and Martha Tabram.

Thanks.

[Batman]

Rather than having a hit list of women he wanted to kill, did he have a list of streets, where he thought "I'll give them a go"

Could have had both. However, the street hit list is almost a must because he needs to escape and he needs to know how to avoid being stopped. Unless he is a PC himself, that took some planning and not just blind luck, although luck obviously plays a part too. He made his own luck by knowing his routes.