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Miller's Court Demolition Photo

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  • #31
    Originally posted by richardh View Post
    And would this mean that IF the lean-to was added later, then so was the arch extension that hovers over Mary's door? And IF these were added after the main house then what about the court cottages seeing as the left cottages are a continuation of the extra archway that is above the back window to 27's shop?

    Those two windows (red/yellow arrowed) are curious indeed! Especially the one obscured by the lean-to roof.
    Miller's Court was originally a garden wasn't it?
    I have a plan of a similar set of cottages built off Opal Street, Kennington. Originally a garden; a court of 'one up, one down' cottages was built there. The floor plans of the original cottages even look exactly the same as the floor plans of the houses in Miller's Court. Mark Ripper found and posted a plan of the layout of the cottage/house close to 13 Miller's Court where Kitty Roman was murdered/
    ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

    I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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    • #32
      Can see why the yellow arrowed window remained but why wasn't the red arrowd window not bricked up if the slope roof of #19 was built over it? I clearly hasn't been bricked up when the added the lean-to so what did this serve?
      also, could this yellow arrowed 'window' give us a clue to the door position of the ORIGINAL ground and 1st floor doors (seeing as windows and doors are often in alignment on multiple floor levers)?

      Would this help us determine the door position in room #13 given that it's immediately below that yellow arrowed opening?
      Could this be a way to discover the partition door location?


      Originally posted by Debra A View Post
      That would be my guess. The earlier Dorset St house has a later back extension to accommodate a change in taste, fashion, use by the previous owners etc.
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      • #33
        Originally posted by richardh View Post
        Can see why the yellow arrowed window remained but why wasn't the red arrowd window not bricked up if the slope roof of #19 was built over it? I clearly hasn't been bricked up when the added the lean-to so what did this serve?
        also, could this yellow arrowed 'window' give us a clue to the door position of the ORIGINAL ground and 1st floor doors (seeing as windows and doors are often in alignment on multiple floor levers)?

        Would this help us determine the door position in room #13 given that it's immediately below that yellow arrowed opening?
        Could this be a way to discover the partition door location?
        The yellow window is directly over the passage, if there's an extension then it is the back wall of the house and all I'd think is that there was a doorway in to number 13 from the main house that was blocked off. A partition wall seems to be just a wall that divided rooms prior to plaster boarding, and they were made of wood.
        ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

        I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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        • #34
          Debra,
          The yellow window appears to be in direct line with the 1st floor window above the ground floor window which is the back shop of #27. That window is not in the passage but is in direct line with the front door of #27. So the yellow window would be in direct line with the front door of #27 and so I would say it's not directly over the passage.

          Originally posted by Debra A View Post
          The yellow window is directly over the passage, if there's an extension then it is the back wall of the house and all I'd think is that there was a doorway in to number 13 from the main house that was blocked off. A partition wall seems to be just a wall that divided rooms prior to plaster boarding, and they were made of wood.
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          • #35
            Originally posted by richardh View Post
            Debra,
            The yellow window appears to be in direct line with the 1st floor window above the ground floor window which is the back shop of #27. That window is not in the passage but is in direct line with the front door of #27. So the yellow window would be in direct line with the front door of #27 and so I would say it's not directly over the passage.
            Richard,
            Isn't the yellow arrowed window on the 1st floor in the section of No 27 that is over the passage The ground floor window of No 27 is further to the right and one floor below? The yellow arrowed window seems to me to be directly over the passage and matches with the Goads that has the rooms over the passage belonging to No 27?
            ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

            I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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            • #36
              If you look at the sketch that i posted with the red/yellow arrow photo you can see the two thin windows right below the roof. The one that belongs to #26 is in line with the sloped brick wall that is the side of #19 & #13. That wall is the wall that runs to the front of #26. The other thin window right next to #26 belongs to #27 and would be directly over the passage. The yellow arrowed window is about 3 feet from the drainpipe that seperates those two thin windows and runs right beside the side wall that of #19. So the yellow arrowed window would be about 3 feet away from the side wall of #19 which would make it in direct line with the window on the ground floor which is macathy's backshop.
              Have a look at this sketch. The yellow arrowed window is below and 3ft to the side of the thin window below the roof eaves. Directly in line with the windows below.

              that's the way I see it anyway.



              Originally posted by Debra A View Post
              Richard,
              Isn't the yellow arrowed window on the 1st floor in the section of No 27 that is over the passage The ground floor window of No 27 is further to the right and one floor below? The yellow arrowed window seems to me to be directly over the passage and matches with the Goads that has the rooms over the passage belonging to No 27?
              Last edited by richardh; 02-21-2018, 04:36 PM. Reason: spelling
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              • #37
                Originally posted by richardh View Post
                If you look at the sketch that i posted with the red/yellow arrow photo you can see the two thin windows right below the roof. The one that belongs to #26 is in line with the sloped brick wall that is the side of #19 & #13. That wall is the wall that runs to the front of #26. The other thin window right next to #26 belongs to #27 and would be directly over the passage. The yellow arrowed window is about 3 feet from the drainpipe that seperates those two thin windows and runs right beside the side wall that of #19. So the yellow arrowed window would be about 3 feet away from the side wall of #19 which would make it in direct line with the window on the ground floor which is macathy's backshop.
                Have a look at this sketch. The yellow arrowed window is below and 3ft to the side of the thin window below the roof eaves. Directly in line with the windows below.

                that's the way I see it anyway.

                You've lost me...
                BTW I was the first person to post that sketch so I have seen and studied it quite a few times.
                ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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                • #38
                  Ha! Sorry, my description was a bit confusing.
                  Basically, in your sketch I've marked the widow that corresponds with the window in the photo with a yellow arrow. The window in your sketch (marked with a yellow arrow) isn't over the passageway. it is directly above and inline with the two other windows below it - which are next to the passageway.
                  The little window below the roof eves, however, IS directly over the passageway.

                  Originally posted by Debra A View Post
                  You've lost me...
                  BTW I was the first person to post that sketch so I have seen and studied it quite a few times.
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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by richardh View Post
                    I'd agree with that, Debra, and my model works with that yellow arrowed window. But why is that 'window' (red arrow) even there? does that signify that rooms 19 and 13 (the lean-to) were added AFTER the main Dorset street house was built?
                    Suspect they were added to the plan during construction.
                    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by richardh View Post
                      Ha! Sorry, my description was a bit confusing.
                      Basically, in your sketch I've marked the widow that corresponds with the window in the photo with a yellow arrow. The window in your sketch (marked with a yellow arrow) isn't over the passageway. it is directly above and inline with the two other windows below it - which are next to the passageway.
                      The little window below the roof eves, however, IS directly over the passageway.
                      Ah, yes. I see what you mean now!
                      I wonder if there was any earlier use by the original owners that warranted extra ventilation holes or something like that?
                      Glass blowing or similar rings a bell with a previous owner but I don't recall the detail at the moment or if it was done on the premises.
                      ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                      I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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                      • #41
                        The actual owner of both properties was a glass blower/glazier known by the name of Barnett. Forgotten his original name.
                        One of his sons, Piza, became a builder. Died in 1931 leaving almost 62,000 pounds.
                        In 1861 Census the property including Millers Court was an enclave of Jewish glaziers.

                        Thanks to Debs and Chris Scott.
                        Last edited by DJA; 02-22-2018, 02:26 AM.
                        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                        • #42
                          http://viewfinder.english-heritage.o...=1950&colour=B

                          Just find that amusing
                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DJA View Post
                            The actual owner of both properties was a glass blower/glazier known by the name of Barnett. Forgotten his original name.
                            One of his sons, Piza, became a builder. Died in 1931 leaving almost 62,000 pounds.
                            In 1861 Census the property including Millers Court was an enclave of Jewish glaziers.

                            Thanks to Debs and Chris Scott.
                            Thanks for finding that, Dave.
                            ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                            I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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                            • #44
                              crime scene sketch from 1885

                              Just posting this room sketch done at an 1886 murder scene at Cannon Row, Woolwich because it has some room dimensions noted on it which seem small but accommodates the same amount of furniture etc. as room 13.
                              I noticed that the interior wall here is labelled as a 'wood partition' the passage in this case is what we would call a hallway now and is indoors. I wonder if the wood partition is an original dividing wall or that the front door opened straight in to the front room originally?
                              Anyway, maybe it's of some use.

                              ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                              I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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                              • #45
                                http://forum.casebook.org/archive/index.php/t-69.html

                                Perhaps 13 was still the parlor.
                                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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