Miller's Court Demolition Photo

[richardh]

Dave,
The three window configuration we see on #27 is mirrored in #26. #27 has no sloping roof to block the lower middle window but #26 does have the slope roof of #19 with the middle 'hidden' window partially within the roof space. Why would they put a window there in the original build? Indeed, IS it a window?
I'm only going by the windows in the back wall of #27 which certainly do have three windows (slot, middle 7 large) which agree with the sketch. On the sketches there is no 'hidden' middle window evident on #26

What ever that hole is, it is right in the sloped roof space of #19

BUT, to me it is a perfect mirror of the middle window in #27 and it's location is curious!

The partition door is evident in police 'photos of Mary Kelly's body.
It was nailed shut.

26 and 27 were possibly limited to 3.5 floors due the walls shared with their neighbors.

The parlor and it's second floor similarly.
The chimney is obviously not an add on.
Look at next door's chimney. Same wall.

If 13 was an add by Miller,it would be for tenants.
Not mentioned in earlier Censuses.

[DJA]

The partition door is evident in police 'photos of Mary Kelly's body.
It was nailed shut.

26 and 27 were possibly limited to 3.5 floors due the walls shared with their neighbors.

The parlor and it's second floor similarly.
The chimney is obviously not an add on.
Look at next door's chimney. Same wall.

If 13 was an add by Miller,it would be for tenants.
Not mentioned in earlier Censuses.

[richardh]

Stephen,
Wouldn't that window give us a clue to the location of #13 'partition' door?
on the #27 side we see the same configuration of windows - the slot window below the eaves, then another window below it which would be positioned directly over the windows below (the ground floor window being the back window to mcCathy's shop which faced into the court). So, if we mirror this to #26 we have the 'hidden' window which would have been in the ORIGINAL back wall to #26 (before the lean-to was built) and so below this we would have either windows or doors in direct line with the 'hidden' window. That window is 3ft from the passage wall and so could it be that Mary's (partition) door in the to-be-built #13 would be 3ft from the passage wall? - and also #19's door would be directly above it and directly below the 'hidden' window?

Also: That 'slot' window (below the eaves) would be a 'skylight' window to light the stairs surely?

That 'hidden' window looks like it was hidden inside the sloped roof of #19 and only exposed in the demolition photo because most that the slope roof has been removed.

Also:
"And very well done Simon. You found a hitherto unknown window on the back wall of #26" - Stephen, Did you know about this window already? is it common knowledge?

Well done Richard

You seem to be getting the hang of this Millers Court lark.

And very well done Simon. You found a hitherto unknown window on the back wall of #26 which proves that Kelly's room and the room above were a later extension to the house almost certainly built at the same time as the court. The bit of window we see would have been left to throw light on the main stairwell of #26 which otherwise would have been dark as hell.

[Stephen Thomas]

I'd agree with that, Debra, and my model works with that yellow arrowed window. But why is that 'window' (red arrow) even there? does that signify that rooms 19 and 13 (the lean-to) were added AFTER the main Dorset street house was built?

Well done Richard

You seem to be getting the hang of this Millers Court lark.

And very well done Simon. You found a hitherto unknown window on the back wall of #26 which proves that Kelly's room and the room above were a later extension to the house almost certainly built at the same time as the court. The bit of window we see would have been left to throw light on the main stairwell of #26 which otherwise would have been dark as hell.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

http://viewfinder.english-heritage.o...=1950&colour=B

Just find that amusing

excellent.

[Wickerman]

And would this mean that IF the lean-to was added later, then so was the arch extension that hovers over Mary's door?

I agree with your point Richard, you have that archway in your model right inline with the doorpost. As is depicted here in the pic. below.



So if room 13 was added later, then so was the room above the passage and much of the rear of No.27.



It's not easy to justify that much work.

[DJA]

Just posting this room sketch done at an 1886 murder scene at Cannon Row, Woolwich because it has some room dimensions noted on it which seem small but accommodates the same amount of furniture etc. as room 13.
I noticed that the interior wall here is labelled as a 'wood partition' the passage in this case is what we would call a hallway now and is indoors. I wonder if the wood partition is an original dividing wall or that the front door opened straight in to the front room originally?
Anyway, maybe it's of some use.

Pretty much. Reverse the house so that room is 13 Millers Court.
Widen the room so that the hallway comes into the room through a nailed up doorway.
Wood partition is often paneling for insulation and decoration. In that case they are inexpensive walls.

[DJA]

http://forum.casebook.org/archive/index.php/t-69.html

Perhaps 13 was still the parlor.

[Debra A]

crime scene sketch from 1885

Just posting this room sketch done at an 1886 murder scene at Cannon Row, Woolwich because it has some room dimensions noted on it which seem small but accommodates the same amount of furniture etc. as room 13.
I noticed that the interior wall here is labelled as a 'wood partition' the passage in this case is what we would call a hallway now and is indoors. I wonder if the wood partition is an original dividing wall or that the front door opened straight in to the front room originally?
Anyway, maybe it's of some use.

[Debra A]

The actual owner of both properties was a glass blower/glazier known by the name of Barnett. Forgotten his original name.
One of his sons, Piza, became a builder. Died in 1931 leaving almost 62,000 pounds.
In 1861 Census the property including Millers Court was an enclave of Jewish glaziers.

Thanks to Debs and Chris Scott.

Thanks for finding that, Dave.

[DJA]

http://viewfinder.english-heritage.o...=1950&colour=B

Just find that amusing

[DJA]

The actual owner of both properties was a glass blower/glazier known by the name of Barnett. Forgotten his original name.
One of his sons, Piza, became a builder. Died in 1931 leaving almost 62,000 pounds.
In 1861 Census the property including Millers Court was an enclave of Jewish glaziers.

Thanks to Debs and Chris Scott.

[Debra A]

Ha! Sorry, my description was a bit confusing.
Basically, in your sketch I've marked the widow that corresponds with the window in the photo with a yellow arrow. The window in your sketch (marked with a yellow arrow) isn't over the passageway. it is directly above and inline with the two other windows below it - which are next to the passageway.
The little window below the roof eves, however, IS directly over the passageway.

Ah, yes. I see what you mean now!
I wonder if there was any earlier use by the original owners that warranted extra ventilation holes or something like that?
Glass blowing or similar rings a bell with a previous owner but I don't recall the detail at the moment or if it was done on the premises.

[DJA]

I'd agree with that, Debra, and my model works with that yellow arrowed window. But why is that 'window' (red arrow) even there? does that signify that rooms 19 and 13 (the lean-to) were added AFTER the main Dorset street house was built?

Suspect they were added to the plan during construction.

[richardh]

Ha! Sorry, my description was a bit confusing.
Basically, in your sketch I've marked the widow that corresponds with the window in the photo with a yellow arrow. The window in your sketch (marked with a yellow arrow) isn't over the passageway. it is directly above and inline with the two other windows below it - which are next to the passageway.
The little window below the roof eves, however, IS directly over the passageway.

You've lost me...
BTW I was the first person to post that sketch so I have seen and studied it quite a few times.