Dorset Street Photo

[MrBarnett]

The Goad map (1888?) shows no. 5 as 4-storied. As I say above, in 1886 it was advertised for sale as a 4-storied warehouse/pub. One possible answer is that sometime between the date of the Goad and 1890, when the freehold of a pub alone is being offered for sale, the original building had been demolished and replaced with a two-storied pub. The original photo is thought be from 1895.

There is no doubt in my mind that the 1912 photo shows the Crispin Street/Duvall Street corner.

Great graphics BTW, Richardh

[richardh]

Using that photo (the first in this thread) and based directly on Goad's map, I've put together a 3D to plot the photo's building heights and the location of No13's archway. The last image (animation) is not 100% perfect but it demonstrates that the photo and Goad's map 'building levels' do match.

[MrBarnett]

In the 1891 census, there is no indication that #5 Crispin is operating as a pub. #36 to 39 Dorset St are all there.

In 1901, #5 Crispin is the Horn of Plenty. #36 to 39 Dorset are still there.

The HoP was there in 1881. In 1886, nos 5 and 6 were being advertised as 4 storied warehouses and the HoP. So there may well have been some 'scalping' in the subsequent 24 years.

[Robert]

In the 1891 census, there is no indication that #5 Crispin is operating as a pub. #36 to 39 Dorset St are all there.

In 1901, #5 Crispin is the Horn of Plenty. #36 to 39 Dorset are still there.

[richardh]

Agreed (about the extra building). Perhaps it would look a little like the updated merge, below:

The pub in that merge hasn't been scalped.

Hi Richard,

Goad's shows four buildings between the pub and Little Paternoster Row—39, 38, 37 and 36.

On the non-Charringtons photo there are only three.

Hi Mr Barnett,

Did the pub get scalped as well?

Regards,

Simon

[Simon Wood]

Hi Richard,

Goad's shows four buildings between the pub and Little Paternoster Row—39, 38, 37 and 36.

On the non-Charringtons photo there are only three.

Hi Mr Barnett,

Did the pub get scalped as well?

Regards,

Simon

[richardh]

Yes, but the pub itself is still only 2 levels - Goad's map states 4 levels and I doubt they've demolished the top two levels to leave a 2 storey pub

Have a look at the link Jerry posted. There has obviously been demolition all around the pub.

[MrBarnett]

Have a look at the link Jerry posted. There has obviously been demolition all around the pub.

[richardh]

In which photo, Simon?
The two 'merged' photos fit perfectly with Goad's. The photo of Charrington's doesn't.

Hi Richard,

There seems to be a building missing between the pub and Little Paternoster Row.

Regards,

Simon

[Simon Wood]

Hi Richard,

There seems to be a building missing between the pub and Little Paternoster Row.

Regards,

Simon

[MrBarnett]

Here is the history behind the picture. Photo taken in 1912 by C.A Mathew.

http://spitalfieldslife.com/2012/04/...hotographer-2/

Thanks for that, Jerry. The canopy of the building on the left of the non-cropped 1912 image looks very much like that of the PR Refuge.

[richardh]

Those two images seem to marry up quite nicely and (to me) it seems more likey that this is the pub know as the Horn of Plenty on the corner of Dorset.

[jerryd]

Here is the history behind the picture. Photo taken in 1912 by C.A Mathew.

http://spitalfieldslife.com/2012/04/...hotographer-2/

[Simon Wood]

Hi Richard,

There is always the possibility that neither picture is of the Horn of Plenty.

Regards,

Simon

[richardh]

Bit confused now!
This picture is described as "Former public house at 5 Crispin Street, on the northern corner with Dorset Street. In 1888, the proprietor was Christopher Bowen and it was a Charrington's house"

and yet the Goad's map states that the PH (public house) in that corner is 4 levels high. The pub in the pic is only 2 levels. Plus Goad's shows the PH has buildings abutting it on both sides, whereas the pic shows a free standing 2 storey building.

http://autumnofterror.com/img/pub.jpg