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Pc Long and the piece of rag.

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  • Hi All,

    If the killer did not use the piece of apron to carry away Eddowes' organs [and I have never believed he did], how else did he transport them from Mitre Square?

    Lawende did not describe the man he saw with Eddowes as having any sort of bag about or near his person.

    Regards,

    Simon
    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
      Hi All,

      If the killer did not use the piece of apron to carry away Eddowes' organs [and I have never believed he did], how else did he transport them from Mitre Square?

      Lawende did not describe the man he saw with Eddowes as having any sort of bag about or near his person.

      Regards,

      Simon
      The uterus in one pocket and the kidney in the other?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
        Hi All,

        If the killer did not use the piece of apron to carry away Eddowes' organs [and I have never believed he did], how else did he transport them from Mitre Square?

        Lawende did not describe the man he saw with Eddowes as having any sort of bag about or near his person.

        Regards,

        Simon
        Eddowes list of possessions shows she had several detachable pockets and small bags....perhaps the killer used one of them to carry away the organs, first emptying it of the buttons and thimble found on the ground?

        Comment


        • [QUOTE=Pierre;401033]
          Originally posted by Elamarna View Post

          Steve,

          sorry for interrupting. I just had a thought.

          "It was the corner of the apron with a string attached."


          It was that corner of the apron. The corner that had a string.

          As opposed to "the corner of the apron without a string"?

          What do you think, Steve?

          Regards, Pierre

          Hi Pierre

          It could well be, that is my point Pierre, the description from Brown is not precise, several different interpretations are possible even without altering any of the words used or looking at the newspaper versions.


          Its may be possible that the apron was the type with only one string that hooked over the other side, no idea if such existed in 1888 but i have seen some that do.

          Of course it may be that the string was cut when removing the apron, rather than undoing it. so there was only one string.

          I do take note of the various descriptions which suggest Eddowes was wearing an apron on the night in question, and while I do not rule out the interpretation given by Trevor, if he is correct which he may be, one does need to then account for the missing corner somewhere.



          Steve

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
            Hi All,

            If the killer did not use the piece of apron to carry away Eddowes' organs [and I have never believed he did], how else did he transport them from Mitre Square?

            Lawende did not describe the man he saw with Eddowes as having any sort of bag about or near his person.

            Regards,

            Simon
            Simon,

            Of course that assumes that Lawende saw Eddowes and killer, not others.


            Steve

            Comment


            • Hi Steve,

              I tend towards "others."

              From the Duke Street end of Church Passage there was line of sight to the spot where Eddowes was found.

              Regards,

              Simon
              Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
                Good morning, Debs,

                to Trevor you said:



                Yes and that is the whole point of Trevor's debate about the apron. And has been all along.

                Trevor's theory is the killer did not remove the bodily organs of Catherine Eddowes. Instead he proposes the organs were removed at the City of London Mortuary, Golden Lane.

                Plus, he has been mistakenly operating under the idea that all of the Ripper books he's never read, you know, Sugden, Begg, Evans, Rumbelow, Tully, all of those plus many more - he thinks all those books state the Ripper used the apron piece to carry the body parts. He thinks everyone thinks that. He thinks we all think that. So he has been arguing against the apron being used to carry the body parts because it would conflict with his theory about the killer not taking body parts.

                I once asked Phil on Forums where in the world Trevor got the idea that we all think that , and why Trevor would think all the Ripper books say the killer used the apron piece to carry the body parts, and Phil was kind enough to answer he didn't quite know for sure. Then someone mentioned the idea of the killer using the apron piece had been written in a dissertation once here on Casebook. And Trevor said aha see that's where I got the idea.

                Does everyone on this thread understand exactly the absurdity of this all? Of all of the years and years of time wasted arguing with Trevor on this point? Which is all based solely on Trevor's paucity of knowledge and his lack of depth on the subject, and the mistaken premise he has been operating on. I hope this is helpful to everyone.

                Roy
                Roy: I love you.
                ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                  Hi Steve,

                  I tend towards "others."

                  From the Duke Street end of Church Passage there was line of sight to the spot where Eddowes was found.

                  Regards,

                  Simon
                  Simon

                  I also wonder about "others" and the time taken for Eddowes to reach where Lawende claim to see her.,



                  Steve

                  Comment


                  • I still think she stopped by the Rose and Crown and then entered by St. James passage. What do you think, Simon?

                    Comment


                    • Hi Jerryd,

                      Anything's possible.

                      According to the Evening News, Eddowes was seen at the corner of Duke Street and Aldgate at 1.30 am.

                      Regards,

                      Simon
                      Last edited by Simon Wood; 11-19-2016, 05:34 PM. Reason: spolling mistook
                      Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jerryd View Post
                        I still think she stopped by the Rose and Crown and then entered by St. James passage. What do you think, Simon?
                        Jerry

                        refresh my memory where was the Rose and Crown



                        Steve

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
                          Jerry

                          refresh my memory where was the Rose and Crown



                          Steve
                          The corner of Houndsditch and Little Duke Street.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by jerryd View Post
                            The corner of Houndsditch and Little Duke Street.
                            thanks, that makes a certain amount of sense.


                            Steve

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
                              thanks, that makes a certain amount of sense.


                              Steve
                              I think so.

                              Hutt said Eddowes left and headed toward Houndsditch. The Rose and Crown was used by the police in 1889 to hold a witness of the Cleveland Street Scandal for a few days (Algernon Allies) for questioning. He was under the care of Inspector Abberline. Little Duke street runs straight into St James passage from Houndsditch. I've mentioned this before. The witness James Blenkinsop was questioned around 1:30 a.m by a respectably dressed man if a man and woman had come through St James passage.

                              It is possible Kate may have been under police surveillance, I suppose. Debs spoke of a picture that was taken of Eddowes prior to the murder. The picture was taken, according to the sketch, from the back side of her or profile. I can't remember exactly. My first thought was it was a surveillance picture.

                              I could be way off base, though.
                              Last edited by jerryd; 11-19-2016, 06:00 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by jerryd View Post
                                I think so.

                                Hutt said Eddowes left and headed toward Houndsditch. The Rose and Crown was used by the police in 1889 to hold a witness of the Cleveland Street Scandal for a few days (Algernon Allies) for questioning. He was under the care of inspector Abberline. Little Duke street runs straight into St James passage from Houndsditch. I've mentioned this before. The witness James Blenkinsop was questioned around 1:30 a.m by a respectably dressed man if a man and woman had come through St James passage.

                                It is possible Kate may have been under police surveillance, I suppose. Debs spoke of a picture that was taken of Eddowes prior to the murder. The picture was taken, according to the sketch, from the back side of her or profile. I can't remember exactly. My first thought was it was a surveillance picture.

                                I could be way off base, though.

                                I was about to ask if you could see any link to BLENKINGSOP ?

                                the timing with him as always struck me as a little odd, I mean if it is after the body is found, surely he must hear what is going on only a few yards away, the police arriving, and one assumes plenty of noise. in those circumstances to be 10-15 minutes out seems shall we say a tad unreal.


                                Steve

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