Sergeant Stephen White

[Richard Patterson]

Yes Richard, he was there during the daytime. I thought you meant that he could be pinpointed as working there around the time of the murder.

I see what you mean Robert. Sorry for such a long explanation, since we were both on the same page on this. I have nothing to pinpoint him to a location at the time of any of the murders.

[Robert]

Yes Richard, he was there during the daytime. I thought you meant that he could be pinpointed as working there around the time of the murder.

[Richard Patterson]

Hi Richard

How can you date this event to September 30th, and why do you say that White was on Berner St? On the other thread you express doubts.

Hi Robert,

I say White was on Berner Street on September 30, because that is what Ripper Casebook, which you support, tells us.

http://wiki.casebook.org/index.php/Stephen_White

If White was indeed on Berner Street on the day of the double murder, it is probable that his encounter occurred at the location of one of the double murders for that day. This would be either near the gateway to Dutfield’s Yard in Berner Street, or an entrance to Mitre Square. I believe it to be a far more believable premise than Castle Alley. Although I am confident that he was at Berner Street, Sept 30th, I have doubts as to where he was during the time of either of the double murders. Or where he was for any of the murders. Regardless of which murder, or day, it seems as if White met an actual East End inhabitant, Francis Thompson.

Respectfully,

[Chris]

The Truth about the Whitechapel Mysteries told by Harry Cox
Ex-Detective Inspector, London City Police. Specially written for "Thomson's Weekly News" 1906


There were several other officers with me, and I think there can be no harm in stating that the opinion of most of them was that the man they were watching had something to do with the crimes. You can imagine that never once did we allow him to quit our sight. The least slip and another brutal crime might have been perpetrated under our very noses. It was not easy to forget that already one of them had taken place at the very moment when one of our smartest colleagues was passing the top of the dimly lit street.

I wonder if Henry Cox was talking about White in this last sentence here?

Yes, I think it's very likely. White is described in very similar terms in newspaper articles quoted on the first page of this thread - "One of the smartest detectives the force has ever known."

[Paddy]

The Truth about the Whitechapel Mysteries told by Harry Cox
Ex-Detective Inspector, London City Police. Specially written for "Thomson's Weekly News" 1906


There were several other officers with me, and I think there can be no harm in stating that the opinion of most of them was that the man they were watching had something to do with the crimes. You can imagine that never once did we allow him to quit our sight. The least slip and another brutal crime might have been perpetrated under our very noses. It was not easy to forget that already one of them had taken place at the very moment when one of our smartest colleagues was passing the top of the dimly lit street.

I wonder if Henry Cox was talking about White in this last sentence here?

Pat................

[Bridewell]

As noted in the other thread, Sgt. White was almost certainly describing the scene of Alice McKenzie's slaying, Castle Alley.

John

I've always thought Castle Alley the best fit (of a bad selection) for White's claim of a sighting.

[Dr. John Watson]

As noted in the other thread, Sgt. White was almost certainly describing the scene of Alice McKenzie's slaying, Castle Alley.

John

[Robert]

Hi Richard

How can you date this event to September 30th, and why do you say that White was on Berner St? On the other thread you express doubts.

[Richard Patterson]

Did White see Casebook's 12th most popular Ripper suspect that night.

People here might want to look at a thread I have started in Casebook Witnesses. It’s about identifying the man, thought to be the Ripper. Detective Sergeant Stephen White supposedly encountered this man October 30th 1888. This senior police officer, under direct orders from Sir Robert Anderson, who was in charge of the Whitechapel investigation, was making enquires door to door, on the day of a double event. He was on Berner Street, where a victim was found. The man White encountered moments after and very near, a ripper murder, matches the homeless East End poet who walked the streets at night. Francis Thompson, a man who happens to be Casebook’s 12th most popular suspect. The thread I’ve posted in Casebook’s Witnesses forum asks did a police officer see Thompson leaving a murder scene right after the 2nd of the double murders. You are welcome to take a look at a thread I’ve posted on Casebook in the Witnesses section.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=8564

[Jon Guy]

Person or persons unknown = unknown person. You can't read what you want into this. It just isn't there. Sorry.

Exactly Mike.
In fact, the Coroner basically said the medical evidence showed it to be the work of one man only, and directed the jury to go for the person unknown option.


He [Coroner] presumed that the jury would return a verdict of wilful murder against some person or persons unknown, and then the police could freely pursue their inquiries and follow up any clue they might obtain. A magnificent reward had been offered, and that might be the means of setting people on the track and bringing to speedy justice the creature who had committed this atrocious crime.
On reflection, perhaps it would be sufficient to return a verdict of wilful murder against some person unknown, inasmuch as the medical evidence conclusively demonstrated that only one person could be implicated. The jury at once returned a verdict accordingly

Daily Tel Oct 12th:

[The Good Michael]

The potential for a second or even a third individual involved with one or more of the murders is there, there is no evidence that Im aware of that would discount it as a possibility. Only Kates Inquest ended with a conclusion she was killed by an individual. Of course they could just be men working in collusion to commit murder, and not serial killers.

How many of the 5 murders were committed in the City of London? Different coroner there; different wording; same meaning. There is nothing in that statement. Person or persons unknown = unknown person. You can't read what you want into this. It just isn't there. Sorry.

Mike

[Michael W Richards]

The potential for a second or even a third individual involved with one or more of the murders is there, there is no evidence that Im aware of that would discount it as a possibility. Only Kates Inquest ended with a conclusion she was killed by an individual. Of course they could just be men working in collusion to commit murder, and not serial killers.

Cheers

[Robert]

Hi Penhalion

I was wondering if the beat PC might take it into his head to peer through the window, but you're right, the idea of an accomplice is a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned.

[Penhalion]

The Miller's Court scenario is the one JtR murder which wouldn't need an accomplice for safety. The beat cop is hardly likely to start randomly knocking on doors just in case Saucy Jack is up to something behind a door in a dark, quiet courtyard.

A female accomplice has a better chance of making the average Victorian Whitechapel sex worker suspicious than of lulling her into feeling safe. By the very nature of their trade, they expect lone men to approach them and to then go off into dark secluded places with them. Having a woman solicit them would probably seem bizarre and suspicious. The time a female accomplice is useful is in luring otherwise cautious victims into a dangerous situation. The victims of JtR were not cautious, they were desperate.

[Robert]

OK Michael let's suppose that a lookout is stationed at the entrance to Miller's Court. He sees a policeman approach along Dorset St. He doesn't know if the policeman intends to enter the court, so to be safe he nips into the court with the idea of jumping the policeman in the event that the policeman looks through the window. Where does he hide?