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There's Something Wrong with the Swanson Marginalia

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  • Originally posted by Monty View Post
    No, I got a copy of your book.

    It keeps the table straight.

    Monty
    Well thank you for buying it I will treat myself tonite to a chinese meal on you !!!!

    Comment


    • Trevor

      The moderator's request concerning personal insults seems to have passed you by.

      But going back to your claim. Keith Skinner? Martin Fido? Stewart Evans? All of them "would seem to covet Kosminski as the killer"? Can you possibly be serious?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
        Well thank you for buying it I will treat myself tonite to a chinese meal on you !!!!
        Please do, best 3 I've ever spent.

        Though a Happy Meal may be more apt. You get a toy with that which would undoubtedly amuse you for hours.

        Monty
        Monty

        https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

        Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

        http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

        Comment


        • There have been more report posts on this single topic in the past 3 days than there have been for the whole of the boards in the past 3 months. There is no wish to prohibit a topic from being discussed, but there is likewise no desire to babysit the threads in order to keep them on track. Some of the Report Posts have been for valid reasons. Some have not. There is no one single person being reported and no one single person doing the reporting. It is a general melee.

          At this point if everyone responsible were to be banned, there would be no one left on the board. The threads are now re-opened for discussion, however, if this pattern continues, the Swanson threads will be closed any time a moderator is not available to supervise the discussion. This is not a desired outcome for anyone, but neither is it desirable to awaken to an inbox flooded with Report Posts. Your understanding is appreciated. Hopefully, this will be the last administrative action taken on this thread.
          Last edited by Admin; 01-29-2011, 11:07 PM.

          Comment


          • Because there still seems to be some lingering confusion over the different colored pencils used in the marginalia and endpaper notation, I have decided to post an animated version, which is a conjectural scenario of how the marginalia may have been added. In other words, it shows the the order in which the marginalia were possibly added, and exaggerates the colors of the writings.

            As has been noted there are two different colored pencils: one is "purplish" and the other one is more pure black or perhaps greenish? In any case, for this animation, I have colored the marginalia in an exaggerated way as purplish black, and greenish black. As noted, this implied that Swanson wrote the marginalia in 2 sittings. The writings can be broken down as follows:

            Group 1 - First sitting. Purplish pencil. The paragraph at the bottom of pg. 138.
            Group 2 - Second sitting. Greenish/black pencil. This includes all the other writings and underlinings on pg 138, and the writing on the endpaper, which is done in the same colored pencil.

            This animation shows only pg 138, although presumably after adding the rest of the marginalia on the second sitting, Swanson, in all probability, turned immediately to the back of the book, and wrote the endpaper paragraph (as suggested by "continuing from pg 138.") While it is impossible to know for sure which order the marginalia were added, some things are clear. For example, it is clear that Swanson added the purplish group 1 paragraph at the bottom of the page first, since the underlining of "also a Jew" is in the blacker color pencil. I have chosen to show the most obvious order, based on reading through the page from top to bottom.

            NOTE: I am not going to conjecture on the underlinings on pg 137 at this time, although I assume they were made either at the same time as either the Group 1 or group 2 annotations.

            I hope this will help to clarify things somewhat, since several people still seem to be confused over the different color pencils, and keep repeating that there was once color pencil used on pg 138, and another color pencil used on the endpaper, which is inaccurate and misleading.

            Rob H
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • So... I'm at my desk grading student papers, and I'm using a black pen. All of a sudden, I've got to go bleed the lizard, see a man about a horse, heed nature's call. When I get back, I can't find that black pen and could care less because I have a nice blue pen on the shelf to my left.

              Mike
              huh?

              Comment


              • Hello Michael,

                Hope all is well in the land of Vladimir Smirnoff? (and a superb vodka called Snow Queen, which is rather excellent...)

                Looking at your posting and relating it to the SM, all we need now then is a note in any coloured pencil to be found, written by and initialled by DSS, explaining that DSS went for a short break and in it he explains the different pencil he used upon the book tbeing revisited to make more notes. LOL

                Yes GM, your scenario is possible. All conjecture of course, as it cannot be proven nor disproven either way.

                Here's to the Snow Queen.

                best wishes

                Phil
                Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                Justice for the 96 = achieved
                Accountability? ....

                Comment


                • Phil,

                  As well, I found a journal I kept on a bicycle trip I did around America and I made additions to it in a different color. I mean, no mysteries need be found everywhere. But then, that's what THEY want... for you to become complacent.

                  Cheers,

                  Mike
                  huh?

                  Comment


                  • It doesn't change the fact that he wrote the group 1 notation first in purple pencil, then wrote the other annotations second. Whether there was a break of 5 minutes or 5 years is not known of course. But it seems to me most likely that there was some break (weeks, months or years) between the two writings. I say this simply because he first makes an addition at the bottom of the page, then adds more underlinings and marginalia as if re-reading the page from the top.

                    If I understand your scenario, he read through the page once, added a note at the bottom, then went to the bathroom and lost his pencil, and returned, then reread the page again from the top and added all the other marginalia.

                    I think the simpler explanation is two separate sittings, probably on different dates. Also, I think the fact that he underlined part of his own note ("also a Jew") indicates that he was re-reading it AND re-reading his own previous note. And wanting to emphasize that part of his previously added note.

                    RH

                    Comment


                    • Rob,

                      Don't take my suggestion literally. I suggest that he made notations at different times and the friggin' pencil doesn't matter. Had he known he would be excoriated over this, he would have used the same pencil and have tried to keep his handwriting similar. He was just making notations, clearing his head. He was fixing stuff on different occasiona in order to give it a completeness it lacked in his mind. He could have done this in 4 sittings for all we know.

                      Mike
                      huh?

                      Comment


                      • Hi Mike,

                        Quite right. The reason I posted this is simple.

                        1. People have suggested that one of the things that makes the marginalia "questionable" is the use of two pencils.
                        2. People have repeatedly stated that a one color pencil was used on pg 138, and another color pencil was used on the endpaper. This is untrue.
                        3. It has been suggested that perhaps the endpaper paragraph was a later addition by someone else. Point #2 above has been implied to support such a contention.

                        Hence, I wanted to try to show, in visual form, that the purplish pencil was ONLY used for the addition at the bottom of the page. The "blackish" pencil was used for all the other additions AND the endpaper.

                        I realize I may be accused of beating a dead horse here, but since false information keeps being regurgitated and repeated over and over again about this, I just wanted to re-clarify the situation.

                        RH

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The Good Michael View Post
                          Rob,

                          Don't take my suggestion literally. I suggest that he made notations at different times and the friggin' pencil doesn't matter. Had he known he would be excoriated over this, he would have used the same pencil and have tried to keep his handwriting similar. He was just making notations, clearing his head. He was fixing stuff on different occasiona in order to give it a completeness it lacked in his mind. He could have done this in 4 sittings for all we know.

                          Mike
                          Are you in touch with him through a medium then to know so much about what he did and didnt do

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
                            Are you in touch with him through a medium then to know so much about what he did and didnt do
                            I don't have to be a medium to understand that in a day where there were no computers or wordprocessors, people couldn't go back and edit their work and could simply write, at various times, additional information onto an extant document in order to clarify things. It is about the simplest of mysteries to solve.

                            Mike
                            huh?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by The Good Michael View Post
                              I don't have to be a medium to understand that in a day where there were no computers or wordprocessors, people couldn't go back and edit their work and could simply write, at various times, additional information onto an extant document in order to clarify things. It is about the simplest of mysteries to solve.

                              Mike
                              Well now you have solved that one why not have a go at the ripper ?

                              Comment


                              • Hi Rob,

                                I'd like to remind you that this time you haven't answered my question.

                                Are there ANY questions regarding challenging the authenticity that you feel would be appropriate to ask in an interview? And if so, what are they?
                                Last edited by Ally; 01-30-2011, 07:38 PM.

                                Let all Oz be agreed;
                                I'm Wicked through and through.

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