The Aberconway Version

[Monty]

If Trevor wants the cooperation of those who have come before, and more importantly, wants the sweat of their brow and the fruits of their research, then perhaps he needs to take a good long look in the mirror and realize that it is his approach that is impeding his investigation, not any grand cabal.

And there lays the rub.

Anyone who knows Paul, Martin and Keith knows they would do their upmost to help, and if they dont then you can rest assured there is a valid reason.

This demand for sharing of information is often made by those who share nothing themselves. They sit and expect. Dont get me wrong, Ive asked for help myself in the past however I always placed the caveat that I do not expect their help and Id understand if they didnt. Stewart would vouch for this, though he has never declined. However I cringe at myself for asking, and do so only as a last resort.

The treatment of these authors and researchers has been scandalous. Trevor, for me at least, has been contemptable. Whilst I respect him for his research and admire him for presenting his theory (as I do anyone who has the balls to share with the baying crowd) there is no excuse to behave as he has done so. He is his own worse enemy. It seems he has no respect for those whos research has laid the foundations for his own.

Sometimes we expect too much for far too little.

Monty

[Ally]

Hi Ally,

Better still, Dr. Watson needs to take a good long look at dear old Trev. Then he might at last see Mrs Hudson and not Sherlock Holmes.

And why is it that Americans think nothing of writing 'wank' (which can only ever mean one thing and it's not pretty) but are so coy when it comes to the word for a female dog that they have to miss out the letter i? Another transatlantic bone for Lynn and I to pick, methinks.

Hi Lynn,

Je suis Poirot! I 'ave been - 'ow you say - unfrocked, de-tached, undone and exposed, as your fruity little Belgian bun.

Yours,

Hercule, zee greatest detective 'oo nevair lived
X

Heya Caz, I am not particularly coy about writing (or saying) any words, I use them all and with relish, I find this insistence that some words are "good" and some are "bad" to be kind of ridiculous. Why precisely is Fukk a bad word? Whenever I ask someone to tell me why precisely Fukk is a bad word it usually ends with "Well it just is!". There's logic. In this instance however, I just didn't know if the profanity-bot would censor the word and I didn't want to leave any doubt that I was possibly calling myself a fukk or a kunt or any of the other naughty words that get routinely censored. As to wank, I don't think it has the same intense connotation over here that it does over here, it's probably the result of us adopting it from you all, but because it wasn't ours to start, to us it lacks the impact.

[caz]

Watching the Detectives

Hi Ally,

Better still, Dr. Watson needs to take a good long look at dear old Trev. Then he might at last see Mrs Hudson and not Sherlock Holmes.

And why is it that Americans think nothing of writing 'wank' (which can only ever mean one thing and it's not pretty) but are so coy when it comes to the word for a female dog that they have to miss out the letter i? Another transatlantic bone for Lynn and I to pick, methinks.

Hi Lynn,

Je suis Poirot! I 'ave been - 'ow you say - unfrocked, de-tached, undone and exposed, as your fruity little Belgian bun.

Yours,

Hercule, zee greatest detective 'oo nevair lived
X

[Ally]

And I do want to point out one more thing, you repeatedly say how this all could have been avoided if people had behaved professionally and with more courtesy.

So how can you possibly reconcile that desire with your seeming condoning of the methods Trevor used here and your continued excuses for him and your attempts to mitigate his behavior?

[Ally]

Ally:
. My understanding was that before this matter became an issue on Casebook, Trevor had tried to obtain a copy of the Aberconway document by contacting one or more persons whom he believed had a copy, and was rebuffed,
which led to his bringing the matter to the Casebook boards, almost certainly to pressure those with the document into making it public.

Logic dictates, that when there is only one small group of authors who have ever had or received permission to publish the document in question, then there is only one group of authors that one should attempt to contact regardless of whom Trevor believed had a copy. There was ONLY one small group of authors that had ever had permission to publish the thing. So Trevor's claims that he attempted to obtain a copy from random ripperologists, out there in the ether, and was rebuffed is kind of understandable, since he didn't approach the one group of people, that once again, the smallest degree of logic would have indicated be approached. If he became frustrated by his lack of success, then maybe he should have examined his methods, analyzed them, spotted the clear flaw (especially since there were half a dozen people telling him in public to contact the A-Z authors) and proceed from there.

I cannot believe that he truly suspected dishonesty on the part of the A-Z authors, but rather was using the suggestion of same as a method of forcing release of the document.

I can believe that he truly suspected dishonesty on their part, but regardless, if he didn't actually suspect dishonesty then that was an even more vile way of going about obtaining it, don't you think? I mean if you truly believe someone is a thief, and you put it up on the boards, then the least you can do is stand behind what you have written in public, even if you take heat for it. But if you DON'T believe someone is a thief, and just put that up there to try to provoke a reaction from them, then you are completely reprehensible and dishonest. You are tarring the reputation of a person for no reason other than your own gain. The A-Z authors are NOT suspects in Trevor's interrogation room where any tactics go to succeed in his goal of confession. They are men who can quite rightly tell him to go piss off if he doesn't treat them with the courtesy that is involved in seeking to obtain something from someone.

I can't help feeling, however, that all this could have been avoided if people had simply decided to help each other, rather than become adversarial.

Well see that's the problem. Trevor has made himself one of those people who believe it is fashionable to throw stones at the old guard and criticize their work and what they have done. This is not the first time he's made slurs against the work of those whose shoulders he is standing on, so why precisely should he expect any co-operation or courtesy from them in return, when he consistently fails to offer any?

I am a flat out btch and I make no bones about it. But I do not bemoan or decry others who choose not to deal with me after I have given them a verbal bitch-slapping. And there's also the little matter that I don't actually WANT anything from them.

You cannot have it both ways. If Trevor wants the cooperation of those who have come before, and more importantly, wants the sweat of their brow and the fruits of their research, then perhaps he needs to take a good long look in the mirror and realize that it is his approach that is impeding his investigation, not any grand cabal.

[lynn cates]

Poirot

Hello Caz. Well done! This is REAL detective work!

As I'm sure you recall, the great Hercule Poirot once solved a case by correctly identifying a Yank who was passing as English. The clue? She said "lawyer" rather than "solicitor."

My bowler's off to you!

Cheers.
LC

[caz]

Fatal flaw show

(witnesses suggest that he practiced self-abuse to a great extent whilst whistling 'The Rising of the Moon' and was, when not committing this egregious act, a great hurler and Gaelic footballer.)

Hi GM,

I would not have doubted at all at all that this version was absolutely genuine if it were not for the fatal flaw above.

No English gentleman and scholar could possibly have committed this outrage. He would sooner have changed his name to Pat so he could come into the parlour for the craic than spell the verb to practise with a c, in the American way.

It's after being a shoddy fake, so it is.

Love,

Caz O'Really
X

[The Good Michael]

The one good thing that has come out of all this is discovery of the long-lost Uberconway version! Thank you for that, Michael!

You're welcome. Sorry I can't publish it all. It's privately owned. Perhaps Trevor... nah.

Mike

[Chris]

My understanding was that before this matter became an issue on Casebook, Trevor had tried to obtain a copy of the Aberconway document by contacting one or more persons whom he believed had a copy, and was rebuffed...

I asked you previously who you meant when you claimed someone had given Trevor Marriott "a run-around." You didn't answer.

If you are going to carry on posting these claims on Trevor Marriott's behalf, can you at least make it clear that he is not claiming that he has been in contact with the authors of the "A to Z"? Otherwise this is just going to increase the ill-feeling and compound the damage that's already been done.

As for the rest of it, the story makes as little sense as ever. Why on earth should he have publicly made "the suggestion" of dishonesty on the part of the "A to Z" authors (as you put it) to "pressure" them, rather than simply asking them privately? And if the problem was that he couldn't work out how to get a message to any of them - which frankly I find unbelievable - then when people suggested that he should contact them, why didn't he ask for advice on how to do so, rather than rudely rejecting the suggestion?

[Dr. John Watson]

Ally:

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions, which you did in a concise and professional manner. My understanding was that before this matter became an issue on Casebook, Trevor had tried to obtain a copy of the Aberconway document by contacting one or more persons whom he believed had a copy, and was rebuffed, which led to his bringing the matter to the Casebook boards, almost certainly to pressure those with the document into making it public. I cannot believe that he truly suspected dishonesty on the part of the A-Z authors, but rather was using the suggestion of same as a method of forcing release of the document. This was a big mistake on his part, and I'm sure he's learned from it. I can't help feeling, however, that all this could have been avoided if people had simply decided to help each other, rather than become adversarial. We are, after all, united in a search for truth, and over the years these boards have brought us together like a family. So let's act like a family, help each other out when we can, and forgive those who have erred.

The one good thing that has come out of all this is discovery of the long-lost Uberconway version! Thank you for that, Michael!

John

[PaulB]

Thanks Ally. I have done as you have suggested.

[Ally]

Paul,

If I can make a suggestion, even though I know that is not your private email, I would recommend you request from Stephen or the mods that a space be inserted in the email address.

There are bots designed to roam the internet, gathering email addresses and you will get truck loads of spam at that address. Inserting spaces around the @ means they harvest an inaccurate email address.

Just a suggestion, feel free to ignore.

[PaulB]

The authors of the A To Z invite Trevor Marriott to write to them collectively at a-zauthors @ hotmail.co.uk (close the spaces in the address) in order to discuss his grievances with them.

[mariab]

Michael,
EXACTLY what I was thinking.
(And that's what I got for being too lazy to read your entire post, instead of reading mainly about Ostrog.)

[The Good Michael]

Maria,

Your leg has been pulled so far that you will be walking in circles.

Mike