Macnaughten Memorandum

[Simon Wood]

Hi Fishy,

"There was a killer who killed and mutilated 5 women."

We must divest ourselves of this notion if we are ever going to stand a chance of solving the mystery.

Simon

[FISHY1118]

Ignoring the fact that there was no serial killer named JtR, how could he have been schoolmaster M.J. Druitt when term times got in the way of his murdering Nichols and Chapman, and even the most ardent Druittist has dismally failed to account for his movements on 30th September and 9th November. Thank goodness Macnaghten never heard of Lechmere. It's just as barmy a theory.

Not withstanding the fact there was a killer tho, who killed and mutilated 5 women, who was by all accounts given the name ''Jack The Ripper'' [ for the barbaric way in which he carved up his victims im guessing ] by the press and public alike .

Thanks for your Druitt thoughts , a barmy theory indeed.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

Hi Simon,

I take it that you mean "Kosminski", because I don't think there's any question that Druitt and Ostrog existed. We don't know for sure whom Macnaughten was referring to by "Kosminski", but that doesn't mean that he didn't exist. Ostrog, however, was in jail at the time of the murders, so he's the only one of Macnaughten's suspects that I would call a joke.

We don't know for sure whom Macnaughten was referring to by "Kosminski", but that doesn't mean that he didn't exist.

Correct. He certainly did exist, and here is where we get into one of my favorite suspects....David Cohen. MacNaughten named Druitt solely on the basis of Druitt's family "believing" that he was the murderer, Druitt topping himself shortly after Kelly was slain, and without getting into any specifics whatsoever. At this point, he is named on nothing more than a hunch. And he got Druitt's profession wrong. Not a good look for MacNaughten. Michael Ostrog?? Only a desk jockey who never worked the streets would name a confidence man as a serial killer with no record of the man ever being violent! I'm beginning to think that Sir Melville would not qualify for my staff. I believe he confused "Aaron Kosminsky," - a raving homeless lunatic who never bathed and ate offal from the streets - with "Aaron/Nathan Kaminsky/David Cohen....or whoever the heck he was! I remember Sugden pointing this out and calling the "David Cohen" individual "a very ugly character indeed." I'm fairly certain this Cohen character would have much more success at cajoling and convincing a drunken prostitute to go with him/lead him into a dark alley for a "bit of the business." Aaron Kosminski was too far gone to have the self-control for energetic murder. As my Southern aunt would say, "I do believe the cheese done slid off his cracker!"

Ostrog, however, was in jail at the time of the murders, so he's the only one of Macnaughten's suspects that I would call a joke.

It's not the suspects, so much as it's MacNaughten himself, who is the joke. Why so much credence has been given this man baffles me. I will take the word over actual detectives in the streets before his. As one inmate said to me, "If you wanna know what's happening in the streets, who do you talk to, the Mayor??" Fair point.

[Simon Wood]

Ignoring the fact that there was no serial killer named JtR, how could he have been schoolmaster M.J. Druitt when term times got in the way of his murdering Nichols and Chapman, and even the most ardent Druittist has dismally failed to account for his movements on 30th September and 9th November. Thank goodness Macnaghten never heard of Lechmere. It's just as barmy a theory.

[FISHY1118]

Hi Lewis C,

Correct. Pick any prize from the top shelf.

“Kosminski” [no forename] made his debut in 1892 as a leading fictional character in Israel Zangwill’s best-selling Anglo-Jewish novel “Children of the Ghetto,” which documented the lives of immigrant Jews living and working in the Yiddish-speaking streets of London’s East End.

“Kosminski” [no forename, as in the MM] was a Polish Jew.

And Druitt ? What are your thoughts on him as a suspect, ? Specifically in relation to the Macnaghten memorandum?

[Scott Nelson]

There was a "Koski" Family living in Ebenezer Square, Aldgate in 1871. Could that be from where Zangwill got "Kosminski" for his novel?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lewis C,

Correct. Pick any prize from the top shelf.

“Kosminski” [no forename] made his debut in 1892 as a leading fictional character in Israel Zangwill’s best-selling Anglo-Jewish novel “Children of the Ghetto,” which documented the lives of immigrant Jews living and working in the Yiddish-speaking streets of London’s East End.

“Kosminski” [no forename, as in the MM] was a Polish Jew.

[Lewis C]

Yes. Especially the one who didn't exist.

Hi Simon,

I take it that you mean "Kosminski", because I don't think there's any question that Druitt and Ostrog existed. We don't know for sure whom Macnaughten was referring to by "Kosminski", but that doesn't mean that he didn't exist. Ostrog, however, was in jail at the time of the murders, so he's the only one of Macnaughten's suspects that I would call a joke.

[Simon Wood]

Yes. Especially the one who didn't exist.

[FISHY1118]

The Macnaghten Memorandum.

One of the the greatest works of fiction known to man.

Regards,

Simon

Are you then also of the same opinion as H.I Brother, that Macnaghten suspects are an "absolute joke" ?

[Simon Wood]

The Macnaghten Memorandum.

One of the the greatest works of fiction known to man.

Regards,

Simon

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

McNaughten Memo

The important thing is that Donald Swanson, writing in his own copy of Mc's memoirs, not for any anyone else's viewing, agreed with Mc and added his own views about the suspects. The 3 men were not pulled out of a hat. We don't know what his private info was. I doubt we ever will. But his views cannot be ignored or explained away.

Cheers

I respectfully disagree and say that the MM can be safely ignored. McNaughten wasn't even technically on the police force at the time of the murders, and I highly doubt if he ever went to any of the locations or did any grunt work. Did Swanson? Unlikely. I will take the opinions of Abberline, Helson, Dew, et. al. way before I'll consider the opinions of these "desk jockeys." McNaughten's suspects are an absolute joke, and I believe he did quite a disservice to the investigation.

[Bridewell]

One AM, I believe. At least according to PC Lamb at the Stride inquest.

Telegraph 3 Oct;
"Constables at fixed-points leave duty at one in the morning. I believe that is the practice nearly all over London"

Not sure if that would have changed due to the bank holiday, though, in Tabram's case.

You are quite right. Just ventured out and retrieved my copy of Dickens's Dictionary of London 1888:

"Fixed Points (Police):

The undermentioned places are appointed as fixed points where a police constable is to be permanently stationed from 9pm to 1am"

The fixed points for H Division are worthy of their own thread so I'll start one if none already exists.

[Joshua Rogan]

One AM, I believe. At least according to PC Lamb at the Stride inquest.

Telegraph 3 Oct;
"Constables at fixed-points leave duty at one in the morning. I believe that is the practice nearly all over London"

Not sure if that would have changed due to the bank holiday, though, in Tabram's case.

[Darryl Kenyon]

"Nobody ever saw the Ripper"?

If Martha Tabram was a victim and reached the place of her demise by the most logical route then someone would almost certainly have seen him because there was a constable on fixed point duty at the entrance to George Yard until the small hours.

(When the weather improves I'll venture out and check what time the fixed point constables moved on.).

Hi Mr B
Not positive about this but didn't fixed point duties finish at night ? Maybe midnight ? I think I asked a similar question once regarding the fixed point duty near the end of Dorset st

Regards Darryl