Major Smith & the Blood-Stained Water

[Monty]

Hey Simon,

Thank you.

1839 - 1891 City of London Regulation book is springing to my mind. We shall see.

Can I ask, the legistlation you quote pertains to offences yes? Does that include surviellance?

Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi Monty,

Thanks.

The 1839 legislation is solid, but anything else which helps clear up any confusion is okay by me.

Safe home.

Regards,

Simon

[Monty]

Jurisdiction

Gents,

Hmmm, surprisingly I'm going to have to question the legisitlation Simon quotes.

I'm not at home just now but I believe my research states that an officer from the City juresdiction can enter Met juresdiction if he felt a crime was about to take place and prevent it and/or the pursuit of a criminal from one juresdiction to another.

Halse was in pursuit of a criminal in his opinion.

Also I have a news report of DC Marriott aiding a Met PC in an arrest and presenting into custody at Commercial St police station.

I recently had conversation with a City Police authority regarding this very question of surviellance on Met area and they stated that though the Met would be notified they would procede anyway unless they had the no no from the Home Office.

As I said, I'm not at home so I'm afraid you will have to wait for my evidences.

Monty

[Chris]

The Mystery of Nightingale Lane - Part 1

The following interesting report shows that the City of London CID didn't always do things by the book.


CITY OF LONDON POLICE.

13th November 1883.

Re Suspected Persons at Nightingale Lane, Wandsworth.

With reference to the above persons:-

I beg further to report that on Monday the 12th Instant, I went with P.C. Patrols Sagar and Davidson to the above address with a view to make further enquiry, and whilst we were surveying the house occupied by these persons we saw Detective Inspector Shaw and another Officer come out of the house of the Rev Mr Curtis (next door) when they came out they at once came across to us and recognized us. We all then went some distance away and held a consultation when Inspr Shaw informed me that he had received all particulars in reference to the above persons, and that observation had been kept on the above house since the 5th Inst., by the Officer who was now present, but he had seen nothing till Sunday Night when a "Man" came there with a Private Cab went into the house remained there a few minutes then came out and drove away towards London followed by the Officer who lost them on Clapham Common.

Inspector Shaw told me that he had received directions from Supt Williamson to attend specially to this matter and that an application would be made by him on Tuesday to the Director for him to be allowed to hire a Pony & Cart to enable him with his men to follow any vehicle &c that might come to, or leave the above premises.

I then with Inspr Shaw went into the garden belonging to the Rev Mr Curtis and by means of a ladder got on to the wall overlooking the rear of the above house with a view to see what was going on in the room over the stable as there was then a strong light burning in that room, also smoke issuing from a chimney in volumes and a peculiar smell coming from that direction, whilst I was looking over the wall (without hat) a Man came out of the back door and seeing me called out What are you doing there? What do you want to see? I immediately got down & went into Mr Curtis's house shutting the door loudly after me. Whilst we were examining the rear of the above house "A young man & woman both respectably dressed" came out of the front gate and were followed by P.C. Patrol Davidson to No 73, Walton Street, Marlborough Road, Fulham Road, Brompton this is a small house over which was a board bearing the following name "G. Miles, House Decorator, Plumber &c".

After this I went with Inspr Shaw to Wandsworth Common Police Station where I saw Inspector Darling & P.S. Mantle with whom we had a further consultation. I was informed by them that special instructions had been sent to them from Supt Digby with a view to clear up the mystery respecting the above persons, we all them returned to Nightingale Lane & finding that nothing further had transpired since we left only the light had disappeared from the room over the stable, we kept observation till 11 P.M. when we left.


To be continued ...

[Phil Carter]

Hello Simon

A thought.

If Major Smith was wandering around on that night....could HE have contacted his Met Police bedfellow Warren?
He'd certainly have the clout....

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil,

Two middle-aged police commissioners buzzing around the streets like blue-arsed flies sounds like fairly impromptu behaviour to me, so I doubt that any such prior inter-force agreements or contingencies with regard to the Whitechapel murders had been put in place.

What I want to know is who gave the order to rouse Warren from his Pimlico bed that morning.

Regards,

Simon

Hello Simon,

Thanks for the reply.

I can find no mention that the Home Secretary gave such leave to the City Police in the stuff I have seen. But then again, was it an exceptional emergency, the reign of the Whitechapel murderer? I doubt it. One would have thought rioting and planned political demonstrations might cause such an implementation of said request.

So which superior officer gave DC Halse the go ahead?And what was the "emergency"?


Re. Warren...I could be totally wrong here, but if I remember correctly, wasn't Supt. Arnold the most senior man around at that time..all others either being away on holiday sick leave (Anderson)?

Without having a reference in front of me, does Major Smith claim to go a wandering of his own accord that night... or was he also called to the scene?

This is very interesting stuff Simon.

Many thanks for posting this.

best wishes

Phil

[Simon Wood]

Hi Phil,

Two middle-aged police commissioners buzzing around the streets like blue-arsed flies sounds like fairly impromptu behaviour to me, so I doubt that any such prior inter-force agreements or contingencies with regard to the Whitechapel murders had been put in place.

What I want to know is who gave the order to rouse Warren from his Pimlico bed that morning.

Regards,

Simon

[Phil Carter]

Hello Simon,

Many thanks.

Then the next questions are rather obvious...

Have we any record of the Lord Mayor giving City Police leave to enter Met Police Territory at the request of the Secretary of State during the Whitechapel Murders, and was that regarded by said Secretary of State to be an especial emergency?

best wishes

Phil

[Phil H]

Thanks, Simon

Phil H

[Simon Wood]

Hi Phil,

The Act still applied in 1888.

Regards,

Simon

[Phil Carter]

Hi All,

For what it's worth.

Section 24 of the City Police Act [1839]—

"One of Her Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State may, in any case of special emergency, at the request of the Lord Mayor, authorise the Metropolitan Police to act within the City of London; and the Lord Mayor may, at the request of the Secretary of State in any case of especial emergency, authorise the City Police to act within the Metropolitan Police district under the command of their respective officers."Not one Metropolitan Police officer appears to have acted within the one-square-mile of the City of London during the morning of the so-called "double-event".

But we do know that one City Police officer, Daniel Halse, did act within the Metropolitan Police area.

Regards,

Simon

my emphasis

Hello Simon,

Umm, I may be wrong here, please correct me if so...but if the 1839 City Police Act was still applicable in 1888 (I don't know)...which respective officer exactly commanded DC Halse?
I thought he took it upon himself to enter Met Police territory, and gave instructions for other City Police Officers to disperse elsewhere?


best wishes

Phil

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

For what it's worth.

Section 24 of the City Police Act [1839]—

"One of Her Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State may, in any case of special emergency, at the request of the Lord Mayor, authorise the Metropolitan Police to act within the City of London; and the Lord Mayor may, at the request of the Secretary of State in any case of especial emergency, authorise the City Police to act within the Metropolitan Police district under the command of their respective officers."

Not one Metropolitan Police officer appears to have acted within the one-square-mile of the City of London during the morning of the so-called "double-event".

But we do know that one City Police officer, Daniel Halse, did act within the Metropolitan Police area.

Regards,

Simon

[Phil Carter]

That must be post 1901 as it refers to His Majesty.

Did the same rules apply in 1888 do you know?

I also note that Met officers have jusrisdiction within other counties including the City, but there is no statement vice versa.

Phil H

Hello Phil H,

I was thinking the exact same thing... especially "sworn in"...
Exceptional circumstances...

Both DC Halse and Major Smith come to mind.

best wishes

Phil

[Phil H]

That must be post 1901 as it refers to His Majesty.

Did the same rules apply in 1888 do you know?

I also note that Met officers have jusrisdiction within other counties including the City, but there is no statement vice versa.

Phil H

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Police Code -



Regards,

Simon