Official Integrity (Off-Topic Discussion moved from Suspect thread)

[Adam Went]

Monty:

So are you saying then that you believe that Macnaghten never actually believed in the suspect candidacy of any of those 3 men? He just pulled names from a hat for the sake of saying that it could have been anyone other than Cutbush? Well, duh, Sir Melville, it could have been any one of hundreds of thousands of people.....the problem is that regardless of his own beliefs, and regardless of his own status within the police force in 1888, or lack thereof, he made the choice to name 3 people who, by the time the memorandum was written several years later, were not in a position to be able to defend themselves or to be capable of clearing their name.

I've said this before, why not Tumblety, or Klosowski? Genuine suspects who were known to the police officials and both of whom were still alive and free when the memorandum was written? That's just to name two examples. He could easily have chosen to go down that path but whether for the sake of cowardice or the sake of simplicity, he took the path of naming those 3 men.

And it's largely down to him that two of them are even regarded as likely suspects in 2012. So if the basis on which they were suspected in the first place is false, or misleading (which in Macnaghten's case it definitely is), then why are they even still on the suspect radar in 2012? Especially poor Monty Druitt, it irks me to no end that anyone would still consider him a viable suspect.

So regardless of how you look at it and regardless of Macnaghten's motives, what he did was ultimately reckless and damaging, and that's why I rate him as the worst of the police officials - with apologies to Jonathan Hainsworth.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Hunter]

I reckon it depends on what we define as a suspect. There would be a lot of grey areas in this case... what individual officers thought or who actually had a dossier at CO specifically related to the murders?


Unless there's a missing file out there somewhere, its hard to prove 'Scotland Yard'... officially... really had any that lasted more than a few days or weeks at the most.

[lynn cates]

suicide and sex

Hello David. Agreed. It seems that suicide and sexual irregularity were the main items sought by the investigators.

Hence Druitt and Kosminski.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

revolver

Hello Maria. Hmm, did he wave it at him?

I look forward to your research here.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hi Neil, I agree. Even though MacNaghten became a police official, his Druitt theory is a mere amateur opinion.
Druitt has never been suspected before he was found dead. How could he ? He is nothing but a name that fit a very hazardous theory - ie : that the murderer was doomed to commit suicide or lose his mind after Miller's Court.

[Monty]

Well. Neil, he seemed to try to make them look 'suspect' at least... and enough so with one of them that he apparently thought him likely to be Jack the Ripper... or, at least, convinced Sims to that effect.

I disagree Cris.

Monty

[mariab]

Richard, is the Paley book about William Bury as suspect? Secondly, the "From Hell" isn't the graphic novel that became the Johnny Depp movie is it? Thanks. Just wondering if I should read either of these works?

Bruce Paley is about Barnett, and not too bad. As for Bob Hinton's From Hell, I too initially had mistaken it for adhering to the Royal Conspiracy theory until better informed Rippperologists cleared out things for me.
Both books are real good, though Paley should have been structured differently and sold its case better, in my opinion.

Exonerate Druitt and Kosminski if you dare, but NEVER a homicidal maniac like Ostrog.

LOL Lynn. As a by the by, Ostrog was adept in using a revolver (once against a cop when he got arrested) and I'm not quite finished looking him up. It's not clear at all if perhaps Macnaghten didn't quote him as a mixup with another suspect, intentional or not.

[Hunter]

Macnaghten does not state that those 3 men were suspects. He clearly states that -

"I may mention the cases of 3 men, any one of whom would have been more likely than Cutbush to have committed this series of murders".

At no stage does he mention they were indeed suspects. Its a common assumption and a misdirected one, along with misleading.

Well. Neil, he seemed to try to make them look 'suspect' at least... and enough so with one of them that he apparently thought him likely to be Jack the Ripper... or, at least, convinced Sims to that effect.

[lynn cates]

homicidal tendency

Hello Simon, Neil. Exonerate Druitt and Kosminski if you dare, but NEVER a homicidal maniac like Ostrog.

Cheers.
LC

[Monty]

Hi Simon,

If you have the evidence to do so.

Minimalistically yours
Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi Monty,

Are we, then, to exonerate Druitt, Kosminski and Ostrog?

I do hope so.

Conspiratorially yours,

Simon

[Monty]

Adam,

"Macnaghten is the worst of the lot of them as far as police officials go, for somebody who wasn't even involved in the case to pick on 3 suspects on entirely false grounds and all of whom, for one reason or another, were unable to defend themselves. But at least he didn't go down the modern path of picking on celebrity suspects."

Macnaghten does not state that those 3 men were suspects. He clearly states that -

"I may mention the cases of 3 men, any one of whom would have been more likely than Cutbush to have committed this series of murders".

At no stage does he mention they were indeed suspects. Its a common assumption and a misdirected one, along with misleading.

Now that suits some peoples agenda, adds to the conspirators amoury, however quite simply Macnaghten is merely pointing out the flimsy evidence against Cutbush by hightlighting a few other names, any one of which COULD have been the murderer but he never stated any of them were direct suspects.

Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi Adam,

Quite right.

The avuncular Mr. Macnaghten was in London during the WM.

Regards,

Simon

[Adam Went]

Macnaghten is the worst of the lot of them as far as police officials go, for somebody who wasn't even involved in the case to pick on 3 suspects on entirely false grounds and all of whom, for one reason or another, were unable to defend themselves. But at least he didn't go down the modern path of picking on celebrity suspects.

Ally:

Hmm, large, red-headed man.....are we back to talking about Bram Stoker again?

Seriously though, fair enough points and you're quite right.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Monty]

Anderson maybe.

However Swanson merely named and Macnaghten presented an opinion, neither accused.

Monty