question about DNA and bodies

[belinda]

There was no sign of "sexual activity" I think it was put more delicately at the time

[pr1mate]

As usual I am confused. Can someone please set me straight.

1. The bodies were examined for semen and none was found?

2. The woman were checked and the ripper did not have sex with them?

These are prostitutes in a time where hygiene was not the same as today's standards. Some of the woman were said to have had clients that day. If I am correct, how in the world would there be no semen found on the body or clothes AND no sign of intercourse? It seems that between clients these woman went for a drink vs going home for a nice shower and change of clothes.

[celticsun]

Ok, I see what you mean, .....I suppose it would be difficult to get any permission from relatives of a victim like Kelly though.....we have no idea where she really came from or who might be descended from her birth family.

All the best

Hi Perry,

What I meant was getting permission from the proper authorities for the exhumation and testing in the absence of known (proven) descendants. Another thought: I don't know whether there are DNA databases for people convicted of, or charged with, cirmes in England or Ireland as there are in the U.S. but, assuming their existence, (I seem to remember reading somewhere that England has one) it would be rather simple to run MJK's DNA through the database. I'm well aware that this is probably, technically not legal but it's the type of small infraction that's done all the time.

Sincerely,

Celticsun

[belinda]

I'm in Australia

Great Southern Land



But very little Archeaology

The programme is on in America they even did an episode there in Maryland!

[karensa]

Ohh, thanks. Nope, I'm in Arizona USA...wild wild west

[belinda]

Time Team is an Enlish programme about Archeaology hosted by Tony Robinson.

One of the Archeaologists is called Carenza

As it's a bit unusual I wondered

[karensa]

Don't know what Time Team is so guess not

Well, I do understand the difficulties, so presuming they could figure out where the bodies actually are, and if there are any of their belongings remaining in old case files could be obtained, then something could be done. I intended that as mostly "a given" under the circumstances and was just agreeing I'd be voting Pro on this one!

[belinda]

Hi Karensa :waving: Are you a Time Team fan?


I'm a bit sceptical about exhuming the bodies especially as there is doubt about the actual graves.

Unless they were buried in the clothes they were killed in which is unlikely I don't see that it would provide any real substantial information

[karensa]

Well, they exhumed Jesse James after about the same amount of time even though the DNA results had been inconclusive...but a new look from more educated eyes could possibly yield something...fibers or something that could possibly change the whole story. Long shot, sure...but it's Jack the Ripper...I think after this long it would have the support of a massive public audience and could be done for the sake of historical benefit.

I was just thinking about this option about 15 minutes ago that "what they should do" (whoever "they" would be) is dig up the victims, dig up James Kelly or any of the other main suspects and run all sorts of tests. I know the US doesn't have any jurisdiction but there's no statute of limitations on murder and this qualifies as cold case. I would support it.

Now on that note, and James Kelly (got him on the brain for now) compiling a list of his alleged victims in the US and the same testing wouldn't be a bad idea either...if it could be shown that he did kill those victims in the US over 39 yrs that he confessed to, it could possibly add to the investigation of JtR murders. I am very interested in Kelly in America - I'd love to see any casefiles or documentation on the victims he claims to have killed, an investigation into their deaths to see if there could be more MO info come to light.

But in the interest of historical preservation (and evolution of knowledge) exhuming the victims isn't a bad idea, imoho.

[Sam Flynn]

I believe it's possible to trace where a person grew up by analysing isotopes in their bones and teeth. Whether this would be sensitive enough to establish whether Kelly grew up in Ireland or Wales I'm not sure. I'm offering this up as a possibility, if only to point out that there's more that can be done these days than just DNA testing.

Hi Perry,

Possibly also to test whether MJK was actually related to John McCarthy as some believe? Or other possible descendants?

Permissions would probably be impossible to get though, and then there's the money.....

Sincerely,

Celticsun

Ok, I see what you mean, .....I suppose it would be difficult to get any permission from relatives of a victim like Kelly though.....we have no idea where she really came from or who might be descended from her birth family.

All the best

[celticsun]

Mjk Dna

I think the ONLY things that might be DNA worthy are the letters and envelopes, and that might only identify a hoax writer if we had his or her samples to match up with....like Ms Cornwall is intending to try and do with Sickert.

All the best

Hi Perry,

Possibly also to test whether MJK was actually related to John McCarthy as some believe? Or other possible descendants?

Permissions would probably be impossible to get though, and then there's the money.....

Sincerely,

Celticsun

[belinda]

*****It is likely that the primary DNA would not show up, but the mitochondrial might.*****






What on Earth are you going to match any DNA to there's nothing viable left

[Sam Flynn]

I dare say that most of the victims' flesh will have turned into soup long ago.

just wondering if it has ever been considered to exhume and examine the bodies of the victims? weren't they likely to have been buried in the clothes they were wearing at the time of their deaths? couldn't any blood, hair, saliva, semen, or possibly even fingerprints be lifted 120 years after the fact?

Im not sure what that action would provide anyone with....if you could extract the DNA from the victims remains, what purpose would that serve? To what might that be matched? They went through autopsies and they were buried in clothing other than what they were found in....there would be no foreign blood on them, and no way to match that with anything even if there was.

I think the ONLY things that might be DNA worthy are the letters and envelopes, and that might only identify a hoax writer if we had his or her samples to match up with....like Ms Cornwall is intending to try and do with Sickert.

All the best