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  • Lost police records & documents...............

    It's readily excepted that the police records relating to the Whitechapel murders has over the years been pillaged by person or persons unknown and for what reason can only be guessed at.

    I'm curious to know whether any of the missing documents have ever reemerged?



    Also of interest would be, what happened to all the letters sent by "Jack" were they retained or disposed of?

  • #2
    Originally posted by The Station Cat View Post
    It's readily excepted that the police records relating to the Whitechapel murders has over the years been pillaged by person or persons unknown and for what reason can only be guessed at.

    I'm curious to know whether any of the missing documents have ever reemerged?



    Also of interest would be, what happened to all the letters sent by "Jack" were they retained or disposed of?
    A few photos were located.
    G U T

    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by GUT View Post
      A few photos were located.
      .....and where do they come from and what were they of?

      Comment


      • #4
        where do they come from and what were they of?
        I believe a package arrived anonymously at Scotland Yard containing stolen photos and paperwork from the pillaged files, some time in the 20th Century. The thinking was that the heirs of a deceased thief/collector felt badly, and just wanted to give the documents back quietly.

        It may have been discussed in this documentary...which is most interesting to me because it has opinions of the FBI presented. (One of the profilers on the show's panel is John Douglas, who inspired the Jack Crawford character in The Silence of the Lambs.)

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqFtvJibWKY

        EDIT: speaking of juries, here is a drunk Orson Welles arguing there's no possible way to start a sentence by emphasizing the word "in" while recording audio for a commercial for frozen peas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V14PfDDwxlE
        .
        Last edited by Merry_Olde_Mary; 06-25-2017, 11:00 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Merry_Olde_Mary View Post
          I believe a package arrived anonymously at Scotland Yard containing stolen photos and paperwork from the pillaged files, some time in the 20th Century. The thinking was that the heirs of a deceased thief/collector felt badly, and just wanted to give the documents back quietly.


          That is very interesting!!

          Did these returned documents shine any light on any previously unknown evidence/information?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by The Station Cat View Post
            That is very interesting!!

            Did these returned documents shine any light on any previously unknown evidence/information?
            The MJK3 photograph gave another version of the room in Millerīs Court. See for example: https://www.casebook.org/dissertatio...l?printer=true

            Cheers, Pierre

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Pierre View Post
              The MJK3 photograph gave another version of the room in Millerīs Court. See for example: https://www.casebook.org/dissertatio...l?printer=true

              Cheers, Pierre
              Yes, but there is controversy over whether this photo is authentic or not.
              Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
              ---------------
              Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
              ---------------

              Comment


              • #8
                Wasn't some of the paperwork destroyed during WWII?

                The mortuary photo of Rose Mylett is lost (if one was ever taken).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                  Wasn't some of the paperwork destroyed during WWII?

                  The mortuary photo of Rose Mylett is lost (if one was ever taken).
                  I was told that a number of things led to the loss of the Ripper Files:
                  -- destruction in the War
                  -- shortage of paper, so old files were re-used
                  -- possible theft by police staff wanting mementos,
                  -- just general loss and destruction over the years.

                  Is it also true that some items have been slipped into file folders after they were requested for study?
                  Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                  ---------------
                  Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                  ---------------

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
                    Yes, but there is controversy over whether this photo is authentic or not.
                    Hi,

                    do you have a source for that "controversy"?

                    Cheers, Pierre

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
                      I was told that a number of things led to the loss of the Ripper Files:
                      -- destruction in the War
                      -- shortage of paper, so old files were re-used
                      -- possible theft by police staff wanting mementos,
                      -- just general loss and destruction over the years.

                      Is it also true that some items have been slipped into file folders after they were requested for study?
                      Have other historical murder files been subject to the same types of loss?

                      Pierre

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pierre View Post
                        Hi,

                        do you have a source for that "controversy"?

                        Cheers, Pierre
                        Yes. It is mentioned in a discussion thread about the MJK3 photo in the Casebook forums. Do you wish a link to the thread?
                        Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                        ---------------
                        Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                        ---------------

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pierre View Post
                          Have other historical murder files been subject to the same types of loss?

                          Pierre
                          I don't know. It seems reasonable to assume that many historical documents have fallen prey to loss by warfare, fire, natural disasters such as flood and earthquake, etc. To mention one example from my knowledge as a librarian, the Great Library at Alexandria was destroyed in ancient times.

                          If historical documents can be lost and destroyed, why not the records of historical murders?

                          But this is all supposition... We don't really know.
                          Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                          ---------------
                          Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                          ---------------

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pierre View Post
                            Have other historical murder files been subject to the same types of loss?

                            Pierre
                            Yes..
                            G U T

                            There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pierre View Post
                              Have other historical murder files been subject to the same types of loss?

                              Pierre

                              Hi Pierre,

                              Haven't been around the threads recently, though I read some.

                              I suspect that thefts from some of the other files occurred, though I specifically don't know of any. The Ripper file, being the one of Britain's most famous unsolved murder case, would have been a natural magnet for people seeking souvenirs, although logic should have dictated leaving the contents together. I am aware that Donald Rumbelow did comment on the Ripper file and the file on the Houndsditch Murders (the Siege of Sidney Street, in 1910) in his books on those cases. But of missing materials elsewhere, I can't be certain.

                              In the U.S. police departments habitually got rid of material that no longer was "needed". About a dozen or so years back I read a book about the source of James Cain's novel, "Double Indemnity" (also a movie with Barbara Stanwyck and Fred McMurray), the 1927 Ruth Snyder-Judd Gray Murder in New York's borough of Queens (where I live, by the way). There was plenty of material, but the trial transcripts no longer exist, and newspaper accounts had to be used. This is true, of many old and celebrated New York Cases. The development of microfilm and microfiche has changed this (as well as comperization) but it has come too late to save many items we would have liked to have kept.

                              Jeff

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