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Was Tabram The Key?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

    Hi SD,

    I was looking back and noticed that I hadn’t responded to your excellent post. There’s certainly nothing that I would disagree with here. I wonder how many unreported rapes there might have been that could have been down to the ripper?
    I concur completely Herlock; that was an excellent post by Sunny Delight.

    I would bet my ferrari (if I had one) that there were several attacks that occurred prior to Tabram that were not reported.
    I think it is reasonable logic to suggest that the Ripper didn't go from expressing typical "normal" behavior, to then stabbing Tabram nearly 40 times. There had to have been some form of progressive escalation, and that would have taken the form of previous attacks; possibly with the use of a knife.

    I also believe that as a young man he had access and opportunity to use a knife; perhaps his father was a pig butcher for example?

    The reason I say PIG butcher; is because the pig is the closest to a human in terms of organs, including size and texture.
    As a young man could he have been exposed to watching his father dismember a pig and/or did his father allow him to participate in butchering pigs; perhaps in preparation for him to take over his business at some point. A father and son-apprentice arrangement.
    If the young Ripper was given permission, access and encouragement to help his father cut, disect and then handle the organs of a pig at the same time he was going through puberty, ergo, around 12 years old, then could the timing also have impacted on his psyche?
    A 12 year old boy becoming accustomed in the process of Butchering pigs, could then associate that process with the hormonal changes occurring in his body.
    It would then explain his skill with a knife and why he seems to have taken gratification from cutting and mutilating.

    The other key factor for me relates to the fact that in the Jewish community the Pig is seen as non-kosher, ergo, it is non-edible.

    This then brings about a potential conflict of interest.

    A young boy exposed to the world of pig butchery who COULD also be suppressed in his desire to play with and consume the organs and flesh of the animal.

    That only being relevant if the Ripper was Jewish.

    Its important to note that the idea of non-kosher relates to not being permitted to consume the animal.
    As far as I am aware, a pig can still be butchered by a Jewish butcher, but not eaten.

    If the Ripper was Jewish and he was a young butcher apprentice; could that have affected his mental state?

    And could that suppression have resulted in his desire to search for pigs that he could mutilate and consume without the oppression of his father?

    When the Ripper mutilated, did he view the women as nothing more than pig carcasses?

    And could the Ripper have found little satisfaction from simply stabbing Tabram?

    I think the evidence that shows that Tabram received wounds from 2 different weapons is perhaps the clue to suggest that the singular intestinal stab from the other weapon was the moment he realised all what he wanted and that his next victim he would focus on the abdomen.
    (Nichols) - only he was likely disturbed by Lechmere and his frustrations grew until he got to Chapman.


    Just a few things to consider


    RD
    Last edited by The Rookie Detective; 06-22-2024, 07:19 AM.
    "Great minds, don't think alike"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

      I think the evidence that shows that Tabram received wounds from 2 different weapons is perhaps the clue to suggest that the singular intestinal stab from the other weapon was the moment he realised all what he wanted and that his next victim he would focus on the abdomen.
      A small correction, if you don't mind, RD. The second weapon's wound was to the chest, not the intestines, according to this report on page 2 of the August 10 1888 issue of The Daily News, London:


      Click image for larger version

Name:	Martha Tabram inquest - Dr. Killeen's testimony - The Dail News - London - 10 Aug. 1888 - page 2.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	206.8 KB
ID:	836486

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Belloc View Post


        A small correction, if you don't mind, RD. The second weapon's wound was to the chest, not the intestines, according to this report on page 2 of the August 10 1888 issue of The Daily News, London:


        Click image for larger version

Name:	Martha Tabram inquest - Dr. Killeen's testimony - The Dail News - London - 10 Aug. 1888 - page 2.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	206.8 KB
ID:	836486
        Ah yes, my bad!

        Thank you for the correction; which is very welcome and an important one; because it impacts on part of my hypothesis regarding Tabram.


        Many thanks to you Belloc


        RD

        "Great minds, don't think alike"

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Sunny Delight View Post
          I would suggest that the killing of Martha Tabram was not the Whitechapel Murderer's first attack(I am trying to refrain from referring to the very sick individual as JTR).
          This was someone who had been 'toying' with the idea of murder and the sexual gratification it obviously elicited in him with post death mutilation. This was a man who was very ill- although he may have hidden that quite well appearing rather more eccentric or odd than threatening in everyday life.

          I think it is almost certain that the murderer who had spread such terror had a history of smaller, more isolated attacks. Attacks that likely failed. So with Martha Tabram he changes method but again this is unsatisfactory to him despite the fact he had committed murder. I think the murderer 'learned' behaviours as he went along. What worked. What didn't. What was time consuming. How far could he take it. With each murder we see escalation. The first two murders are almost identical to those committed over 100 years later by Robert Napper. The first committed with a knife- I believe Napper's victim Rachel Nickel was stabbed over 40 times in broad daylight. Napper's second victim Samantha Blisset was murdered and mutilated. A piece of organ(I can't remember which one) was removed and her body poser. The sick b*****d also killed her little 4 year old daughter, suffocating her.

          To my mind the Whitechapel murderer was quite likely very similar to Napper. Napper had a long history of violence against women as a serial rapist although that connection was not made until he was arrested and convicted of the murder of Samantha Blisset and her daughter. Napper was described as a loner, was obsessively neat and tidy, odd but not someone who was intimidating or threatening in general life. My belief is the Whitechapel murderer was probably the exact same.
          It was Tabram that first got me to come here and start posting a few years ago.

          When I was pestering my Mrs and a couple of her colleagues from the A&E department at various evenning events where, after sufficient alcohol has been consumed, such discussions could occassionally gather a few cutters' opinions... one of the opinions that was discussed was that there didn't necessarily have to have been TWO weapons used in the killing of Tabram.
          It is the generally accepted case that the "final" blow was delivered by a heavier bladed weapon to the sternum. However... as several people who have been faced with plenty of stab wounds on their tables pointed out, a smaller knife with a broken tip delivered with sufficient force could create the same... or at least similar... wound to the sternum as described.
          If the knife used for the rest of the wounds struck a bone, or the stone of the floor in the frenzy the tip could easily have gone and the blade would present a small flat, chisel like, point of impact.
          Of course all of that is anecdotal, and as every one of them said, "Show me a proper autopsy report and the autopsy photos and I'll tell you whether it's likely it was the same weapon..." otherwise it's just a possibility. And one that without more proof will never sway the existing weight of opinion.

          I think there is a strong likelihood that this was the same killer, and this might have been his first kill.
          Stride aside, the violence inflicted post-mortem escalated, and again, we can never know if that is evolution in method, an increase in the drive to achieve his "goal" or simply situational based on hearing approaching witnesses, and if he had the time he would have done to Polly what he did to Mary.

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