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  • #61
    Originally posted by Lombro2 View Post
    Hello Mark,

    It’s always good to talk to fellow Suspectologists. Mrs Lechmere was also 39. Does a Lechmerian discount an age-appropriate Substitution Killing by the Ripper for his wife?
    Hi again. TBH, I don't think there's such a thing as 'a Lechmerian' as yet: I don't think either Edward or Christer -- not to mention the other folks I know who work on this -- agree with some of the wilder scenarios I've constructed to fit the data into. And -- to get to your question -- generally I don't 'discount' or 'exclude' things: everything I think of or hear about, however batshit it seems, goes in one scenario or another... But re. substitution-killings: do you have a favoured text/study/database I can look at? With Lechmere, I have so far mostly concentrated on the Old Ma. After all, a boy's best friend is his mother...

    Bests,

    Mark D.
    Last edited by Mark J D; 03-31-2024, 04:58 PM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Lombro2 View Post
      Jack is an obvious Combo Killer but I look for consistent behaviour in assessments, not dabbling behaviour like cannibalism or what can be interpreted as symbolic lust mutilations in two or three of the five. I go with consistent prostitute killing and spectacle killing or inciting of terror which is similar to mass murder which goes up in age range to 73.

      The findings from The Violence Project's Mass Shooter Database are known worldwide. Explore the data we have pulled from our database as key insights.


      I also look at major deviations like age. The Boston Strangler had a major deviation which was presumably just younger copycats going after victims they knew.

      So again, I’m looking at the age of any significant other. Do you give him one and do you have an age bracket?
      I'd say that his most likely age is about 30, though I can imagine him being as young as 22 or as old as 45.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Mark J D View Post
        re. substitution-killings: do you have a favoured text/study/database I can look at? With Lechmere, I have so far mostly concentrated on the Old Ma. After all, a boy's best friend is his mother...

        Bests,

        Mark D.
        I don’t believe in research studies for violent crime. I do believe in statistical data but I don’t think academia would be interested in substitution killing because they’d think it’s blaming women.

        But, as I believe you’re pointing out, serial killers are extremely motivated by women.
        Last edited by Lombro2; 04-04-2024, 02:36 AM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Lombro2 View Post
          But, as I believe you’re pointing out, serial killers are extremely motivated by women.
          That's an oversimplification. The Ripper certainly appears to have been, but even then was his motive anger, sexual, or something else. But there are also serial killers with financial motives - the Benders, Belle Guiness, John Haigh, or several infamous baby farmers. There are also doctors and nurses who kill patients, regardless of the gender of the victim.
          "The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren

          "Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer

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          • #65
            If you want to discuss serial killers with financial motives, we can do that. I see Greed as similar to Lust as a motivation. Envy, of course, is my favourite. Anger though has to be the most probable with Moralization involved, which would suggest again Substitution. It’s more probable than Lust. You can’t give everything equal billing or not have a primary principle.

            Financial motives used to rule people out as legitimate serial killers. Obviously financial motives or otherwise can exclude a female as a primary motivator. It doesn't in fact rule out primary principles. That's why I would not rule out Monetary Greed Killers any more than I would rule out a Lust Killer as being a Serial Killer.

            Motivation helps in investigation but is the hardest to determine, hence I'm going here with Age and Victimology which is known.
            Last edited by Lombro2; 04-09-2024, 06:52 PM.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Lewis C View Post
              I'd say that his most likely age is about 30, though I can imagine him being as young as 22 or as old as 45.
              I like your age range better than the usual one. But I wouldn't say 30 is most likely. Do you think he ended up killing four women in a row in their mid 40s, 5+ years above the unofficial "average", completely by accident or did he at least know what was out there between 1 and 5:30? If he knew what was out there, then wasn't there a "natural" choice for 45 because that's around his age, and not just the practical benefits of late night/early morning stalking?

              Average Age of Whitechapel Prostitutes? - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums

              I hope the 45 cut-off isn't due to any belief of rookies over 45 not existing. That's if you believe he's an 1888 rookie.​


              Donato Bilancia 46 (Liguria Monster) Italy
              Russell William 46 (Killer Colonel) Canada born England
              David Carpenter 49 (The Trailside Killer) US
              Bruce McArthur 52 Canada
              ​John Wayne Glover 57 (The Granny Killer) Australia born England​

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Lombro2 View Post
                I like your age range better than the usual one. But I wouldn't say 30 is most likely. Do you think he ended up killing four women in a row in their mid 40s, 5+ years above the unofficial "average", completely by accident or did he at least know what was out there between 1 and 5:30? If he knew what was out there, then wasn't there a "natural" choice for 45 because that's around his age, and not just the practical benefits of late night/early morning stalking?

                Average Age of Whitechapel Prostitutes? - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums

                I hope the 45 cut-off isn't due to any belief of rookies over 45 not existing. That's if you believe he's an 1888 rookie.​


                Donato Bilancia 46 (Liguria Monster) Italy
                Russell William 46 (Killer Colonel) Canada born England
                David Carpenter 49 (The Trailside Killer) US
                Bruce McArthur 52 Canada
                ​John Wayne Glover 57 (The Granny Killer) Australia born England​
                He may or may not have known that older women would have been most of what was out there, or he may have learned that over the course of the period. I think most likely he cared more about what time he murdered than the age of his victims. Maybe older women were more desperate, and therefore more willing to go somewhere with him.

                My 45 cut-off is partly based on descriptions, and also because while over 45 rookies exist, I think they're very much in the minority. I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility. In fact, I think Oswald Puckridge, though a long shot, is a viable suspect, and I think that he was 50 at the time of the murders.

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                • #68
                  I also go partly by the witnesses because there are so many but I add ten years because people can look ten years younger in the dark, and that’s without counting an already youthful appearance. So I got 40-50 with Long saying “over 40”.

                  I draw the line at 50 with the only examples over 50 I have so far being a killer of very old “Grannies” and a gay killer who resorted to drugs to subdue his victims.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Fiver View Post

                    That's an oversimplification. The Ripper certainly appears to have been, but even then was his motive anger, sexual, or something else.
                    Isn’t anger the most likely motive? I’d say it’s more likely than sexual, especially if we’re talking arousal by innards.

                    That means he’s angry at someone which would be a Substitution or a person the victim or victims substituted for. So who’s more likely to have angered him—a 45 year old or a 25 year old?
                    Last edited by Lombro2; 04-06-2024, 12:09 AM.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Lombro2 View Post
                      A serial killer killing older women is interesting criminal behaviour in itself and I think it’s unique. Off-hand, I can think of three examples of serial killers who killed older women—the Boston Strangler, the Lipstick Killer and the Gorilla Man. I thought it was rare and so far I think I’m right. In fact, one or two of those are now considered to possibly be myths.

                      Real or not, these killers coincidentally also had a change in the victim age group as did Jack the Ripper. For example, Earle Nelson went from victims over 60 to 20 year olds. The Ripper, we know, went from 40s to “25”.

                      So what can this coincidence tell us, if anything? Why older victims and why the switch?
                      The range in age of the victims presumed to be killed by Jack the Ripper is wholly dependent on which victims you choose to attribute to him. These murders are ALL Unsolved, as are the remaining 7 or 8 victims in the Unsolved Files for that same period. If you wanted to add Johnny Gill, the child butchered in Bradford in Dec 88, then Jacks profile would be that he kills boys and women between the ages of 8 and 46.

                      My point is that until at least 1 of these Jack attributed murders is eventually solved....a difficult possibility to accept personally, then we have no idea of the actual Victimology. Its all just presumed.

                      Last edited by Michael W Richards; 04-12-2024, 01:46 PM.
                      Michael Richards

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                      • #71
                        What’s the difference from a linkage standpoint between the “Ripper” murders and those of other know prostitute killers, like say Peter Dale McDonald?

                        His victims were 23 and 33 when he was 36 and the last one was 35 when he was 39.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Lombro2 View Post
                          A serial killer killing older women is interesting criminal behaviour in itself and I think it’s unique. Off-hand, I can think of three examples of serial killers who killed older women—the Boston Strangler, the Lipstick Killer and the Gorilla Man. I thought it was rare and so far I think I’m right. In fact, one or two of those are now considered to possibly be myths.

                          Real or not, these killers coincidentally also had a change in the victim age group as did Jack the Ripper. For example, Earle Nelson went from victims over 60 to 20 year olds. The Ripper, we know, went from 40s to “25”.

                          So what can this coincidence tell us, if anything? Why older victims and why the switch?
                          When we add into the mix that the Ripper targeted the Uterus and Womb, it could be said that the reason for his switch related to females fertility.

                          His mid-40's victims were coming towards their end of shelf life in terms of ability to conceive and this may have been why he began with older women.

                          Switching to MJK is interesting and perhaps the reason why she suffered the most injuries may have been down to her fertility age just as much as being indoors.


                          But I also believe the Ripper may have been the torso killer.

                          It's interesting that all of the torso victims were of a similar estimated age as MJK.

                          In that case he may have STARTED with younger fertile women and then spent a few months in the autumn of 88 trying out the feeling of cutting up the reproductive organs of women nearing the end of their ability to hold a child...before going BACK to what he knew and loved with MJK and the younger fertile age group.

                          Let's not forget that at least 3 of the Canonical 5 nearly had their heads severed.

                          That shows some intent to dismember


                          I think one of the biggest arguments for supporting the idea that he was driven by the fertility/infertility of his victims is precisely because he switched age brackets.

                          That distinct change has to mean something.


                          If it doesn't, then why attack the reproductive organs?


                          RD

                          "Great minds, don't think alike"

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