Why a Cover-Up could be possible...

[drstrange169]

>>Monro just needed the suspect to NOT be a middle class well-respected Englishman.<<

As a Scotsman, I suspect Monroe would have been very happy for it to have been an Englishman!

[Wickerman]

There was a reference by MacNaghten to Druitt being 'sexually insane' was there not? How would describe that innuendo? The medical training is yet to be proved I agree. Suicide back then was regarded as a social stigma for many families that had members who committed it. His name would not be of much value to use.

It is necessary to know what it meant in the late 19th century, not what it means today.
Much like being called Gay in Victorian times has a quite different meaning today.
One researcher obtained several 19th century quotes, I think one of them came from a medical source, but the meaning of 'sexual insane' at the time was akin to being over-sexed today, purely a heterosexual charge.

As has already been pointed out, some have theorised Druitt might have been homosexual as he was a teacher at a boys school. However, when we look at the school records we see several female kitchen staff & servants at the school.

[seanr]

There has always been a theory, which some researchers have advanced for many years. They suggest that Irish terrorist group the Fenians, who in addition to causing major disruptions in London by bombing buildings in 1888, was also behind some or all of the Whitechapel murders, in an attempt to force a major breakdown in the forces of law and order in London. I was later able to advance this theory following the examination of another Metropolitan Police file from The National Archives. This is recorded under MEPO 18/1. The file in question is a crime record book, which contained details of internal police memos and files relating to enquiries and investigations. Some of these entries related to the Whitechapel murders although the dates of the files referred to and the entries are un-dated. One such entry read: “Whitechapel Murders suggested complicity of Irish Party.” This entry related to an original file numbered 93867.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

For people who like to see patterns (and a conspiracy theory is usually a network of patterns) there's the suspicious death of Douglas Pyne MP of the Irish Party just a few days after the murder of Mary Kelly.

[seanr]

I don’t buy the Fenians committing the crimes as some kind of terrorist act, personally. When the first crime was committed, it can’t have been expected to have led to the case it did and terrorism would surely be more impactful hitting at high society, not through attacking societies most vulnerable.

I don’t rule out the possibility of a conspiracy of sorts though. The truth could be way more mundane than a grand conspiracy would suggest. With no-one actively setting out to cover up the murders but prioritising not upsetting an apple cart and the solution to the murders not being properly pursued.

Some have cited a possibility that John McCarthy was a police informant on the Fenians. It’s also been suggested the lodging house keepers may have profited from criminal enterprise, such as the sale of stolen goods on the premises and prostitution. The evidence for such may be scarce but it is not non-existent. It’s not a great leap from that to local police having been bribed (which has also been suggested) to not ask too many questions of some. Or police preferring to leave the established criminal powers in place in a ‘better the devil you know’ or even a ’they keep the violence among the criminal class’ kind of philosophy, not entirely unknown policing tactics (even if rarely acknowledged) - and especially where a high profile informant may be involved.

With the Daniel Morgan murder back in the news today and the undisputed complicity of some in the police force in that case (as just one example), I don’t think it outside the realms of possibility that some could have looked the other way when it came to cold bloodied murder.

I don’t know if it could be proved, though.

[Astatine211]

It's just kinda annoying most of the documents which served as the basis for the origin of the royal conspiracy and many others ended up 'missing' or destroyed. If we still had them we could disprove almost all the conspiracies once and for all.

Also I want to know what happened to Dutton's Chronicles of Crime which were supposedly taken away by detectives. I assume they probably got destroyed in WW2.

[Herlock Sholmes]

There was a reference by MacNaghten to Druitt being 'sexually insane' was there not? How would describe that innuendo? The medical training is yet to be proved I agree. Suicide back then was regarded as a social stigma for many families that had members who committed it. His name would not be of much value to use.

I’ve always thought that it’s worth asking the question: why did a man (Mac) with all the resources that he had at his disposal for naming any dead criminal or any caged lunatic to be added to Ostrog (criminal) and Kosinski (lunatic) on his ‘better suspect than Cutbush’ list, did he select a man who wasn’t a criminal and had no history of violence? Not only that but he was related by marriage to one of his best friends in a society where the upper classes stuck together and we’re keen to have it understood that the killer was from the lower part of society. It’s also worth mentioning that Mac’s good friend Monrovia felt that Mackenzie was a victim so why name a suspect who died before her? It might have been Farson who said something about that Druitt’s apparent unlikeliness as a suspect being what makes him intriguing and what makes me wonder if he might actually have been guilty?

[erobitha]

Druitt had no medical training as far as we know Erobitha. There’s a gap of a year before he started his training as a Barrister and Jon Hainsworth has suggested that he might have begun a medical course but dropped out but it’s only speculation of course. There was also no suggestion of homosexuality. This rumour has come about in recent years when people have suggested that he might have ‘crossed the line’ with one of the boys resulting in his sacking added to the fact that he wasn’t married or engaged. We just don’t know why he was sacked though. MacNaghten, as you know, said that he’d received private information about Druitt so I don’t think we can assume that MacNaghten didn’t feel that he had very good reason for naming Druitt.

There was a reference by MacNaghten to Druitt being 'sexually insane' was there not? How would describe that innuendo? The medical training is yet to be proved I agree. Suicide back then was regarded as a social stigma for many families that had members who committed it. His name would not be of much value to use.

[Abby Normal]

police, club, royal conspiracy. bah. its all a bunch of cockswabble.

we even have the unknown conspiracy theorists lol. something is amiss, just dont know what it is!

[Herlock Sholmes]

.
Once the risk had passed, so did the murders. It was almost a perfect combination. Then it was all about saving face. “We actually knew all along it was A,B,C”. The only reason why Druitt’s name even came up was because of suicide, his medical training and an insinuation of his homosexuality. Not even his own family trusted him apparently. No loss, throw his name in to mix.

Druitt had no medical training as far as we know Erobitha. There’s a gap of a year before he started his training as a Barrister and Jon Hainsworth has suggested that he might have begun a medical course but dropped out but it’s only speculation of course. There was also no suggestion of homosexuality. This rumour has come about in recent years when people have suggested that he might have ‘crossed the line’ with one of the boys resulting in his sacking added to the fact that he wasn’t married or engaged. We just don’t know why he was sacked though. MacNaghten, as you know, said that he’d received private information about Druitt so I don’t think we can assume that MacNaghten didn’t feel that he had very good reason for naming Druitt.

[erobitha]

there was huge pressure on the police to solve the case and the tensions among the top officials were creating a nightmare for all of them. it was partly resonsible for settling the hash of warren. they would want nothing more than to solve this case.

and the reason they couldnt frame someone up and be done with it, was because there was no conspiracy/cover up, they werent in control, and the if they tried to do anything nefarious, they wouldnt know if the real killer struck again and they would look like even bigger fools.

if there was a conspiracy and they were controlling everything this case would have been "solved" then. and yet they even all opt for different suspects.

It couldnt be less a conspiracy if you tried.

the simple fact is that they had an unknown post mortem type serial killer on their hands, and they never solved it, although they tried to save face later by saying they knew who it was(or had strong supicians) all along.

If you look only through the limited lens of “the police must solve these murders”, then logically all your points are valid. I cannot deny that.

Except ‘solving’ it was not the primary purpose of Anderson for example. He literally had to be dragged back from his hols. I’m aware it was on ‘doctors orders’. But we do know he had contempt towards the victims because of what they had to do to survive.

Monro was interested in his own self preservation. And was quite happy to let old Charlie make a fool of himself. Monro sat he in the Home Office awaiting reports from Swanson, and eventually Anderson. Have you ever worked in an organisation where ruthless careerists stamp on you to get where they want? To
me that was Monro. Meddler and Influencer. I wouldn’t be surprised if we eventually find evidence of him adding to the pressure on Warren.

Monro just needed the suspect to NOT be a middle class well-respected Englishman. Once the dust settled it didn’t matter who did it really. Sure, the police have to be seen to be trying, but I wonder ultimately how hard did some of those higher ranking officials really try.

Once the risk had passed, so did the murders. It was almost a perfect combination. Then it was all about saving face. “We actually knew all along it was A,B,C”. The only reason why Druitt’s name even came up was because of suicide, his medical training and an insinuation of his homosexuality. Not even his own family trusted him apparently. No loss, throw his name in to mix.

How many named English suspects as a % are there on any known named suspects by the police? How many were Jewish?

Out of interest, how many Jews lived in Whitechapel of the estimated 70,000 as a %?

[Abby Normal]

there was huge pressure on the police to solve the case and the tensions among the top officials were creating a nightmare for all of them. it was partly resonsible for settling the hash of warren. they would want nothing more than to solve this case.

and the reason they couldnt frame someone up and be done with it, was because there was no conspiracy/cover up, they werent in control, and the if they tried to do anything nefarious, they wouldnt know if the real killer struck again and they would look like even bigger fools.

if there was a conspiracy and they were controlling everything this case would have been "solved" then. and yet they even all opt for different suspects.

it couldnt be less a conspiracy if you tried.

the simple fact is that they had an unknown post mortem type serial killer on their hands, and they never solved it, although they tried to save face later by saying they knew who it was(or had strong supicians) all along.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Bruce Robinson posed the question “what if the police didn’t actually want to solve the murders?”. Of course the question seems strange at first. They are the police, of course they did!

Really? How concerned was Anderson? How concerned was Monro? Warren only seemed to start to care when he made a rare cameo at Goulston Street. Anderson had disdain for the women. Monro was a career politician pulling strings. Swanson was Anderson’s lackey. Warren was just incompetent and not part of the gang. With Anderson and Swanson in his pocket Monro could operate freely outside of Charlie’s radar.

Intense press coverage and a pressing socialist problem seems like a good way to kill two birds with one stone.

The socialist movement and workers unions that were rapidly spawning and forming across London, and in the poorest locations in particular, where causing a bit of concern for those who protected Her Majesty’s best interests. 1887 ruffled a lot of feathers and it needed to be dealt with. Link these brutal murders to that of a working class Jewish immigrant and suddenly the locals get back in line and know their place once again. Distract, divide and conquer. It worked.

Freemasonry did not save Jack from being caught.

Self-interests of the empire probably did.

To be honest I really struggle to take Bruce Robinson seriously. His opinions appear to me to be less based on reality and more on his own anti-establishment political outlook. He seems far too quick to paint every senior policeman or politician as either a Blimpish buffoon or a moustache-twiddling Victorian pantomime villain. They were all ‘in on it.’ We have to remember that these men were being pilloried and branded as useless for not catching the ripper. On the other hand we shouldn’t look at them uncritically of course.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Why does it have to be wide-ranging? Why could it not just be limited to Swanson, Anderson, Monro and possibly Littlechild?

I’m not saying that it has to be wide-ranging Erobitha. A cover-up could just involve limited people as you say. All I’m saying is that, in general, if someone proposes a theory that would have to have involved huge numbers (like many JFK theories for example) then they are less likely to have occurred IMO.

[erobitha]

Agreed, deception is also cover-up.

I think it might be necessary to explain the cover-up as most posters are more used to a cover-up meaning to protect the killer, because he is 'among the highest in the land', or because he is a 'person of consequence'.
It was once theorised that the murders were intended to deflect from the Irish political question, though it was not a well thought out theory.

Bruce Robinson posed the question “what if the police didn’t actually want to solve the murders?”. Of course the question seems strange at first. They are the police, of course they did!

Really? How concerned was Anderson? How concerned was Monro? Warren only seemed to start to care when he made a rare cameo at Goulston Street. Anderson had disdain for the women. Monro was a career politician pulling strings. Swanson was Anderson’s lackey. Warren was just incompetent and not part of the gang. With Anderson and Swanson in his pocket Monro could operate freely outside of Charlie’s radar.

Intense press coverage and a pressing socialist problem seems like a good way to kill two birds with one stone.

The socialist movement and workers unions that were rapidly spawning and forming across London, and in the poorest locations in particular, where causing a bit of concern for those who protected Her Majesty’s best interests. 1887 ruffled a lot of feathers and it needed to be dealt with. Link these brutal murders to that of a working class Jewish immigrant and suddenly the locals get back in line and know their place once again. Distract, divide and conquer. It worked.

Freemasonry did not save Jack from being caught.

Self-interests of the empire probably did.

[Astatine211]

Macnaghten essentially did a cover-up when he destroyed the paper and evidence so the identity wouldn't be discovered by the public. In an ironic way it was a very public cover-up as he freely admitted it but the destruction of evidence to prevent the identity being know is still a cover-up.